D&D possible cause in Murder case again.

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Well that certainly justifies wishing death upon an individual doesn't it?

I didn't hear you hootin' and hollerin' about this when the first poster wished death by suicide on a broad swath of society, so don't go gettin' all holier than thou now - it just makes you a hypocrite.

EDIT:

In other words:

Person A: "Anyone with a B in their name should go out and kill themselves. I mean, seriously, do us all a favor, you morons!"

Person B: "Hey, I have a B in my name, and I resent your remarks. Why don't *you* go kill yourself, idiot?"

You: "Hey, now, Person B, that's rude. You shouldn't ever tell people that. Grow up, Person B."

You don't see a problem here?

 

[Voadam]

Wow, people are ripping on the reporter for including in his story on the murder and its investigation what the prosecuting attorney directly said he is also checking as possible motivations that might be involved.

Ooh, the reporter didn't do enough (in the reporter critic's view) additional analysis and insertion of other opinions, he only reported what the prosecutor said they are actually investigating.

Is the criticism that the reporter made up stuff or got anything factually wrong in his story? No, it is that he reported the prosecution's investigation, and didn't rip on the prosecutor.

What intellectually poor complaints about the media.

 

[Voadam]

I'd think that quoting idiots - without making fun of them - would be a bad Idea. It implies that the writer agrees or at least has no problem with it.

Ahh, responsible moral news reporting has a duty to make fun of people they quote. Somehow that seems the realm of editorializing instead of news reporting.

An analysis of what someone says is different from reporting what someone says.

Most people understand that when people are quoted in a news article it is the quoted person's words and views that are being told, not the quoter's personal view.

 

[Thotas]

As completely wrong as it was of the prosecutor to make that remark, at least he did know the suspect was a game player. Thinking that this was meaningful is indicator that he needs a refresher on the rules of inference, true 'nuff. But it's not nearly as bad as the ignorance shown by an investigator of the Washington sniper a few years ago. All it took was a couple of Tarot cards laying around for this guy to say the crimes might have a link to Dungeons and Dragons! -- a connection that as we all know did not exist in the least.

Mathematician John Allen Pallos (books not handy, that might only be an approximation of the name) pointed out the flaw in this logic in his book "Innumeracy", without even knowing anything about D&D, in connection to the teenage suicide rumors. Basicly, the expected number of teen suicides who play D&D assuming that there is no connection would be = (% of teens who play D&D) x (% of teens who commit suicide) x (actual number of teens total). We find that the actual number is less than the expectation, meaning that D&D inhibits suicide, suicidal types don't play D&D, and /or other factors that encourage D&D playing discourage suicide and vice versa.

I'm betting Pallos' math applies to crime as well.

 

[WizarDru]

Is the criticism that the reporter made up stuff or got anything factually wrong in his story? No, it is that he reported the prosecution's investigation, and didn't rip on the prosecutor.

What intellectually poor complaints about the media.

I think the complaint is that the reporter merely took the district attorney's comments at face value, without digging at all on the source of the suspicion. This would be more acceptable were in to coming from the district attorney, who is not a police detective investigating the case, but an elected official attempting to garner media attention.

KYW's reporters didn't ask or report on why they believe that the accused murderer was influenced by Dungeons and Dragons, other than his rather ramshackle quote on the matter. Consider this: if he had said, "well, we believe the crime was a hate crime" or "we strongly believe that this was a drug deal gone bad", you'd look for and expect coroboration of that suspicion. The flimsy coroboration that was presented was not challenged nor was more details sought. If, for example, he had answered the challenge to one of my hypothetical statements here with "well, he was a white guy from Camden...I mean, c'mon! Deadliest city in the U.S., right?" or "Well, he was from South Philly. The Merlinos operate out of there, obviously."....you'd think he was flailing. And that's what his flippant reply sounded like. Let's look at it again:

"I mean, you have many, many stab wounds and those 'Dungeons and Dragons' fantasy games involve swords and knives and daggers and things of that nature. There may be a connection but I can’t say for sure.”

Now, if he'd explained that there was more reason than just this, it would not have come across as a logical fallacy. He didn't defend that statement, and KYW didn't press him on it. I think that's the irritating point: it was accepted ON IT'S FACE. If the revelation that they were all members of the same gaming group is true, it lends legitimacy to the claim....but it wasn't presented very well by the man who is going to be prosecuting this tragic crime.

 

[Greatwyrm]

...You don't see a problem here?

I'm still trying to get past the irony of two gamers upset about the possibility of gaming being unfairly linked to a murder advocating each other's icky death.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I'm still trying to get past the irony of two gamers upset about the possibility of gaming being unfairly linked to a murder advocating each other's icky death.

Irony. It's what for dinner.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Ahh, responsible moral news reporting has a duty to make fun of people they quote. Somehow that seems the realm of editorializing instead of news reporting.

An analysis of what someone says is different from reporting what someone says.

Most people understand that when people are quoted in a news article it is the quoted person's words and views that are being told, not the quoter's personal view.

A reporter who merely repeats what people say isn't worth a thing. I don't need a living person for that. A machine can handle it. If we put human brainpower - paid human brainpower - into it, we might as well use it. Maybe by not just quoting people, but by putting those quotes in context.

The part about the big collection of stabby objects would have been interesting, would it not have?

grass is red

It will be when the United LARPers of the World will throw down their disguise, rip the padding from their swords and start killing the imbeciles. I think, if ask anyone, it's only a matter of time before that happened.

and France has decided to dismantle the Eifell Tower.

Finally. It really was in the way.

I still haven't quite figured out why it's being blamed on his preoccupation with D&D and not, say, a preoccupation with sharp objects, since they found 'several dozen' blades in his home. (How many is 'several dozen'? If 'several' is anything more than a couple, then that would make a minimum of 36 swords, knives, and daggers in his home.)

Well, you can link that to D&D. But if he wasn't a roleplayer, he would have just collected normal knives and the like, not those fancy Lord-of-the-Rings-Aragorn's-Swords and such. Or he would have been a fan of the movie Blade and got the official Blade-Katana.

I wonder if I have enough gaming stuff in my house to label me as "obsessed?" (Actually, I'm pretty sure I have enough in my house to get put on a 'watch' list. )

Hm.....
Nearly 100 Rulebooks? Check!
A whole big directory on the PC dedicated to the Game, with Sheets (some selfmade) and Charakters and PDF's and all kinds of freebies? Check!
A collection of D&D miniatures, approaching the big 1000? Check! (And neatly sorted in several cases and boxes, too)
Over 100 "Roleplaying" Novels? Check
A set of Japanese swords (decorative only, but this thing is a reasonably thin, durable, two-foot piece of metal, and that could be used to kill someone. As could a lead pipe you can buy in a Do-It-Yourself Centre. Or just a large kitchen Knive. I think, the last of those is the most suitable, cause it actually has an edge)? Check!
Several Folder with printed Stuffs, Campaign notes, Charakters (including old ones) and quotes? Check!
Accounts in 3 or 4 Message Boards dedicated mostly to Roleplaying (including one Admin position in one of the Boards)? Check!


But then again, I have more than a dozen First Person Shooters, and other games with copious amounts of violence, too. I think if I ever go berserk and kill someone (or many someones), they'll be stuck badly: Blame the roleplaying games or the computer games?

Personally, I think If I ever ran amok, it's because of the TV programme these days. (Which reminds me: I forgot about all those violent DVD's)

 

[Voadam]

A reporter who merely repeats what people say isn't worth a thing. I don't need a living person for that. A machine can handle it. If we put human brainpower - paid human brainpower - into it, we might as well use it. Maybe by not just quoting people, but by putting those quotes in context.

The part about the big collection of stabby objects would have been interesting, would it not have?

Even filming a speech requires a cameraman. What machine absent human work here would provide us with the prosecutor's statement about the motivation and investigation? You are saying it would be better not to have the article at all than to have it as it is written?

The quotes were adding context to the murder, explaining the proseuction theory of motivation and what investigation is being checked out. Yes more information would have been nice, but I think the reporter clearly did not do anything wrong.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Even filming a speech requires a cameraman. What machine absent human work here would provide us with the prosecutor's statement about the motivation and investigation? You are saying it would be better not to have the article at all than to have it as it is written?

If we want uncommented stuff, we could just post in a message board or something. Or some automated news site or something. Someone posts, it displays.