D&D price lists

[Agback]

G'day

I think I have pointed out before that the price ratios of various commodities in the D&D price lists are pretty wacky, and way out of line with any plausible quasi-mediaeval production technology (and not in ways that seem likely results of magic, either).

Partly, I guess, this is a result of the fact that no designer in thirty years have ever bothered to do any research into prices. And partly it has been a result of setting prices to be interesting to immensely wealthy PCs.

Now, it seems a bit strange to give PCs a lot of gold (to make them rich) and then jack up the prices of lamterns and lighting oil (to make them poor again). Especially as it implies that most of the common folk (labourers' wages are almost the only prices not inflated) cannot afford to feed their children or heat their homes.

So, a few interesting questions:

1. In how many campaigns do PCs carry on in town like gold miners on a spree?

2. In how many campaigns do GMs actually allow PCs the influence that goes with having vast wodges of cash? Think of it: PCs are walking around in and riding on gear worth more than the whole of a typical village. Imagine showing up in a small town these days where your car and suit and pocket knick-knacks are worth mor than the town, its fields, and everything in them. What can you get done out of petty cash.

3. If in most campaigns PCs are not in effect fabulously rich, would most GMs prefer to see prices that made more sense?

Regards,


Agback

 

[MaxKaladin]

D&D Prices are out of whack with any sort of pre-industrial economy. I'd love to see a more accurate price list but I've never gotten around to it.

To answer your questions:

1. Some of my PCs will go on a spending spree, but its generally stuff like making / buying magic items and things like that.

2. My PCs have a lot of influence with poor folks due to their wealth, but they tend to run in richer circles so it doesn't come up very often.

3. Yes

 

[candidus_cogitens]

So . . . why don't you suggest an alternative list? I'd love to adopt it!

 

[Deadguy]

I've commented before that most camapigns could give a fig for a 'realistic' price list!

For starters, you'd have to specify a particular milieu in order to use any historical information. And since the 'default' D&D setting seems to be a rather chaotic mix of eras and locales, it would have to be some sort of hybrid. The work would be considerable, and it's questionable just exactly how much it would add to a setting. Is the intent that the PCs be interested in mercantilism? Or just that they pay appropriate amounts for their goods? Either way, I suspect that at some point you'd need to look at the prices of magical as well as mundane items, extending the task considerably.

All that said, it can be done. I have a friend who ran a camapign (based on Pendragon, not D&D sadly), which he has used in several locales and three different eras (loosely equivalent to Earth's Europe in the 4th, 10th and 15th centuries). For each locale he developed a list of goods available in major towns, smaller communties and the countryside. The work was viable only because it was done over a period of ten years, but did seem to add some verisimilitude to the campaigns. People made special expeditions to cities just to be able to try and purchase better armour and weapons, which created easy story links. And merchant caravans actually made some sense to encounter!

 

[Gothmog]

The best realistic price guide I have seen for a RPG is "...and a 10 Foot Pole" published by ICE. It has price lists from the Stone Age through Modern Day. It has foodstuffs, household items, animals, mounts, specialized equipment (jeweler's, mason's, etc), weapons, armor, barding, etc. A great resource. Its a generic system book, and the prices include a few extra denominations (iron, bronze, and tin I believe), but its the best equipment price guide I have ever seen. You can probably find an old or used cope at your FLGS or on ebay.

 

[Olive]

Now, it seems a bit strange to give PCs a lot of gold (to make them rich) and then jack up the prices of lamterns and lighting oil (to make them poor again). Especially as it implies that most of the common folk (labourers' wages are almost the only prices not inflated) cannot afford to feed their children or heat their homes.

And you think that most medieval peasants could do these things?

1. In how many campaigns do PCs carry on in town like gold miners on a spree?

If what you mean is, do they in my campaign, then no not really. They have bizarre incomes, but also bizarre expenses. Unlike most people they stay in hotels almost exlusively, and eat out constantly. They also have odd needs for military equipment and arcane oddities that your average peasants don't have.

2. In how many campaigns do GMs actually allow PCs the influence that goes with having vast wodges of cash? Think of it: PCs are walking around in and riding on gear worth more than the whole of a typical village. Imagine showing up in a small town these days where your car and suit and pocket knick-knacks are worth mor than the town, its fields, and everything in them. What can you get done out of petty cash.

This is a good point, but again, I don't think its particularly unrealistic. I just make sure that when they rock into a small town, they get treated with respect.

3. If in most campaigns PCs are not in effect fabulously rich, would most GMs prefer to see prices that made more sense?

I've said this a million times, I think the prices make more sense than people realise. Adventurers are fabulously rich. If they weren't then where would be the attraction in adventuring? It's a profession based or profit from killing creatures. Most people don't have the skills and even if they had the chance to develop them then they wouldn't want to becase it's better to be a filthy poor peasant than dead. So I'd love to see some research, but if the PCs aren't fabulously rich in most campaigns, then there's a problem with the campaign, not the price stuctures.

 

[jgbrowning]

All that said, it can be done. I have a friend who ran a camapign (based on Pendragon, not D&D sadly), which he has used in several locales and three different eras (loosely equivalent to Earth's Europe in the 4th, 10th and 15th centuries). For each locale he developed a list of goods available in major towns, smaller communties and the countryside. The work was viable only because it was done over a period of ten years, but did seem to add some verisimilitude to the campaigns. People made special expeditions to cities just to be able to try and purchase better armour and weapons, which created easy story links. And merchant caravans actually made some sense to encounter!

I've taken the view that the prices listed are what general traveling PC would pay, not what a member of the community would pay. Something akin to a "tourist" price. The people the PCs are buying from know the PCs have wealth and they're simply not going to let the PCs have a product for the same price that they'd let their neighbors get it for.

As to trading, I've assigned a purchasing DC modifier that increases/decreases price. For example dwarven waraxes may have a purchase DC of 15 in a human city, but in a dwarven city it would be only 11. Profit can be made by moving large amounts of goods from a low DC center to a high DC center.

Simple, and easy to implement.


joe b.

 

[rushlight]

Let's not forget a few things:

1) The D&D world features many things that our real world does not. Like magic. Things which are expensive in real life can be quickly Fabricated. Magic can also make crops more productive, and weather control can really keep the risk out of farming. Many clerical spells can keep people healthy where they might not ordinarily be, which increases productivity.

2) The fact that large amounts of gold can be found at all will drastically change an economy. When a town has access to adventurers, prices will go up. Alot. All that money funneled off the dungeon chumps will go to those servers and store owners. Which will filter down. Trickle down economy, perhaps. Inflation for sure.

3) Ease of use. This is a game, after all. A totally accurate economic system might not be too fun. "I'm using my 'Instant Calculate Interest' skill to befuddle the Mutant Teller!"

Actually, that last one could be amusing...

 

[Steverooo]

Yes, it's whack!

Yes, prices are all out of whack. So are weights. Handaxes do not weigh five pounds, nor two-handed swords 20+. Surely something better could be done, but (for whatever reason) it never has been.

The 1e assumption was a "Goldstrike" mentality; that prices were lower in less dangerous (more boring) areas, but that prices had been jacked up in "Adventuring" locales, just like in Alaska during the gold rush era. Later editions seem to have removed this assumption, but kept about the same prices! ;-p

You can try to develop your own price and equipment lists, but no one seems too interested in doing the work.

 

[Damon Griffin]

Re: Re: D&D price lists

I've said this a million times, I think the prices make more sense than people realise. Adventurers are fabulously rich. If they weren't then where would be the attraction in adventuring? It's a profession based or profit from killing creatures. Most people don't have the skills and even if they had the chance to develop them then they wouldn't want to becase it's better to be a filthy poor peasant than dead. So I'd love to see some research, but if the PCs aren't fabulously rich in most campaigns, then there's a problem with the campaign, not the price stuctures.

Olive, I'm going to assume I've misunderstood you, and ask for clarification. Because your argument here seems to be:

1. The PCs, as persons with highly specialized skills, deserve to be fabulously wealthy.
2. The price lists are set up to reflect what the PCs can afford.
3. Therefore the price lists make sense.

Since I'd find that argument completely absurd, I prefer to believe for now that it isn't what you meant. The PCs represent a small fraction of one percent of the total population of the campaign world -- the entire economy cannot be based on them. Millions of non-adventuring NPCs have to be able to buy things as well. Nor is there any obvious justification for routinely charging a PC ten to twenty times what you'd charge an NPC farmer for the same item, just because the PC has more money. If you do that, then the PC doesn't have any more money -- you've brought his buying power down to the level of the farmer.