D&D Race You Hate the Most

[KarinsDad]

When it can speak and reason why would it be a "monster"?
What makes a kobold different from a gnome?

Imo the term "monster" is not one applied because of inherent racial traits but because of social stigmas. And those can change depending on the world or region.

Racial traits should often have social stigmas associated with them by definition. No different than ranchers in the real world killing wolves, regardless of whether wolves actually kill their lifestock.

If the Orcs have been attacking the City State of the Invincible Overlord for hundreds of years, why wouldn't Half-Orcs PCs be imprisoned or killed at the gates for being spys?


This is why the concept of evil monsters worked so well in earlier editions of the game system. Players often knew who they could attack with impunity.

When 4E came along and many different monsters were no longer evil (or no longer good) or even monsters by definition and when PCs could no longer Detect Evil, the game became more of a non-deterministic smorgasbord of creatures.

The players could determine the capabilities of a same race monster (knowing the difference between a Frost Goblin Cutter vs. a Corrupt Goblin Cutter vs. a Goblin Thorn vs. 200+ other types of goblins), with a monster knowledge check, but the players couldn't often determine the social stigma of an entire race of monsters because the monster could actually be played as a PC.

It doesn't make sense. Either all goblins are considered monsters and treated that way by most NPCs, or goblins should be able to willy nilly walk into any town unmolested until they actually attack. If the PC goblins are unmolested, then so should the NPC goblins.

Goblins shouldn't be given "inalienable human rights" just because the game system allows them to be played as a PC. They should be monsters first, attacked on sight by many different types of non-monstrous humaniods, and players playing them should be aware that this might be the case.

I don't think the game system by default should have racial political correctness tones where monsters walk the streets as if they were not monsters.

Tieflings are half-devils. They should be hunted down and slaughtered in a general default campaign setting.

Granted, a given campaign world could have Tiefling or any other race as benevolent creatures that most humans and other humanoids would trust, but that shouldn't be the default.

Races that are generally aggressive and non-benevolent should be considered monsters, regardless of their ability to speak and reason. For example, many PCs of any race.

 

[Minigiant]

Yeah and the Barbarian Minotaur with a -1 Diplomacy is going to convince the townspeople to put away their pitchforks because he found out that Goblins are attacking them.

This is a form of Deux Ex Machina. The NPCs act the way the PCs want them to because it continues the DM's story instead of because of how NPCs should really act in that situation.

Townsfolk being attacked by Goblins should sound the alarm and shoot arrows at monstrous PCs before those PCs even get close enough to talk to the townsfolk. The townsfolk are already on alert because Goblins have already attacked them. If not already alerted, the townsfolk should probably scatter when monsters come to call.

That's why they are called MONSTERS. What part of MONSTERS is not understood?

Wouldn't a Minotaur be even more scary than Goblins? This should be an instant situation of NPC Fight or Flight, not conversation.

Granted, I am talking about a Points of Light setting (the default of 4E) where the very definition of the campaign world is one where there are islands of light surrounded by seas of darkness. Other campaigns can and are totally different. But I've always preferred campaigns with dangerous wilderness areas where monsters are outlaws by definition and not ones where monsters walk the streets of cities. If they walk the streets of cities, they shouldn't be called monsters. Instead, they'd be called citizens.

See that's the issue. What the average person sees as monster is based on setting and DM, not be default looks. In my game, elves are not trusted on sight as a person can't tell if they are rational natives to the plane or the extremely irrational beings of the Fey world. Whereas dragonborn, kobolds, and anything scaly with metallic colors are instantly trusted at first sight as servants of Bahamut.

 

[Lwaxy]

It doesn't make sense. Either all goblins are considered monsters and treated that way by most NPCs, or goblins should be able to willy nilly walk into any town unmolested until they actually attack. If the PC goblins are unmolested, then so should the NPC goblins.

Yeah true enough.

Goblins shouldn't be given "inalienable human rights" just because the game system allows them to be played as a PC. They should be monsters first, attacked on sight by many different types of non-monstrous humaniods, and players playing them should be aware that this might be the case.

Again, all depends on setting.

I don't think the game system by default should have racial political correctness tones where monsters walk the streets as if they were not monsters.

There is no such thing as a default setting. The setting is what you make it, even in published settings.

If you mean that players tend to feel entitled to playing a monstrous race because it is in the rules, then yeah that can be annoying.

Tieflings are half-devils. They should be hunted down and slaughtered in a general default campaign setting.

Unless the default setting is Golarion and you play in Cheliax...

Races that are generally aggressive and non-benevolent should be considered monsters, regardless of their ability to speak and reason. For example, many PCs of any race.

I don't do generally aggressive races. I do generally aggressive cultures. The halflings may be the friendly hobbits where you grew up, but the ones over the mountains hate strangers and shoot first and ask later. And yeah, they do dark rituals and may steal your blood.

I disagree about not making sure to portray every race as possibly benevolent, especially as I play with kids a lot and need to make sure that in general, the way you look does not equal the way you are treated. The way you behave does. This does not mean there are no places where prejudice is not abundant. But there also need to be places where this is not the case.

Tieflings are, in our worlds, by definition distrusted thanks to their infernal heritage. Of recently, those who redeem themselves lose the devilish features and abilities after a while. Was not my idea but I like it.

 

[Tovec]

@Tovec

Why do I hate Human, dwarves, elves, and halflings?

1. Because WoTC like making them boring. Outside of cuture, they make them humans, stout humans, skinny humans, and short humans. Not until 4E did they kind of make them different races and only barely.
2. People use their inclusion to make D&D into LotR the RPG. D&D is not LotR with more dragons. If they don't get full on Tolkien, it's full on Norse or full on Celtic. People's minds get just as narrow as player who never roll non-class skills unless forced.

I'm not going to try and argue your personal taste. I can understand your criticisms but to me if you add too much flavour, or flavour people dislike you end up with things like....

Kender: LOLZ HEY WHAT IF WE MADE HALFLINGS LIKE TOTALLY HATED TWINKS LOLZ.
Eladrin: You can keep your blink-elves to yourself, thanks.
Tieflings: Know what we call the offspring of demons and devils 'round here? EXPERIENCE POINTS.
Dragonborn: Cannot. Stand.
Warforged: Wow. Someone actually suggested "Iron golem" as a playable race...and somebody else OKed it. wow.
Thri-Kreen: "BUGS, MR. RICO! MILLIONS OF 'EM!"

So...those.

1. These races are naturally boring and you have to add stuff to them to make them interesting outside of class. No breath weapon. No eye beams. No transformations. No claws. No horns. No natural poisons. No tails. No wings. No glamours. No alternate movement modes. No plant control. No animal control. No invisibility. No teleport.

As per this. I really dislike then they add things like breath weapons, claws, horns, eye-beams, etc. to a race that has no business having them.


I'm not saying I like boring or bland or generic things but I think you have to be very careful what you add, instead of just adding craziness and being done.


I like the story, or rather feel, they gave dragonborn (for example) but I think much if not nearly all the dragonborn flavour should have belonged to dwarves.
I think you have a little burnout in seeing too many "generic" elves, dwarves, humans and halflings. If they have flavour and personality they can be great.


I voted against the creatures that had mechanical problems or were just really silly or stupid to me. It never occurred to me to strike at the "core four" but again that is just my opinion and experiences with them.

 

[Minigiant]

[/LIST]
I'm not going to try and argue your personal taste. I can understand your criticisms but to me if you add too much flavour, or flavour people dislike you end up with things like....

My problem is not flavour, it is with the "genetics."

What is the difference between a human with Str 14, Dex 16, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 8, and Cha 15 and an elf with Str 14, Dex 16, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 8, and Cha 15?

Really it isn't mmch at all Pre 4E.

Therefore the only thing that differentiated the races is flavor. But flavour is based on the setting and DMs. And a good 75% of the settings and DMs use the same thing. Overused flavor over bland races.

As per this. I really dislike then they add things like breath weapons, claws, horns, eye-beams, etc. to a race that has no business having them.


I'm not saying I like boring or bland or generic things but I think you have to be very careful what you add, instead of just adding craziness and being done.


I like the story, or rather feel, they gave dragonborn (for example) but I think much if not nearly all the dragonborn flavour should have belonged to dwarves.
I think you have a little burnout in seeing too many "generic" elves, dwarves, humans and halflings. If they have flavour and personality they can be great.

You can't hand special abilities out like candy with no rhyme or reason.
But races should be different. They are different races. They should be somewhat different.

Lions are not big hyenas.
Monkeys are different from turtles.
Apples are not oranges.

If D&D was a scifi game, this would barely fly. But somehow we are fine with elves being pointy eared skinny humans who don't sleep.

 

[Lwaxy]

Elves sleep the same as everyone else in my games

 

[TarionzCousin]

In Planescape, cornugons and devas are walking down the street to the bakery every day.

Yeah, but that night hag's cupcakes are awe-inspiringly delicious!

My vote put Kender into triple digits. I'm so proud. Has there ever been a Kender player who didn't steal from the party?

 

[Yora]

How do dragonborn make it into third place? I always assumed they are lizardfolk with a breath weapon, but that couldn't cause that much backlash.

 

[grimslade]

I only really hate gully dwarves, but they weren't on the list, so kender it is.
Fearless hobbits are good. Fearless, kleptomaniac hobbits afflicted with the worst ADHD imaginable? The Stupid. It burns. the goggles they do nothing.
Tasslehoff Burr nnnniiinngg Aiiiieeee!!!

I understand the aggravation that the monstrous races give some classic fantasy world players/DMs. I just think it is misplaced. Disallow any race that does not work in your world. Explain to players why a devil spawned tiefling would not live a long life in the Theocracy of the Palish. The Diocese of Devil's Bane patrolled by the Paladin Inquisitors of Torquemada would not be swayed by the plight of the PC and raise him in secret. Not gonna happen.
The thing is not every campaign is as restrictive or traditional fantasy. I like a campaign like Star Wars, lots of aliens mingling with the token humans. I still want lizardfolk to be a PC race. Not Dragonborn, but swamp living, gator-raising, cajun spicin' lizardmen. I want a corrupt empire of Devil worshiping evil humans that fell and gave rise to modern day tribes of tribal horse nomad tieflings. Give me sentient magical automatons. Give me a race of doppelgangers for my conspiracy theorists to focus on.
Half races aren't worth it. Give me full races and half races can choose which side they want to emulate.
Large PC races are a tough thing to balance so they need to be an option in the MM or DMG. But, toy ogres and miniature minotaurs are fine.

 

[Lwaxy]

Has there ever been a Kender player who didn't steal from the party?

Yes

However, the party always gave her other targets. "Have you sen the group camping at the river? The merchant's wife with the colorful bracelet? That guy in the next room who has so much luggage?"