D&D: Saga Edition?

[Ry]

At that point, why even have classes? Just make everything feat based?
You could do that, and it could result in a great game, but I think it kills too many sacred cows for what we're trying to do here.

But why make everything feat based when we can have races and classes that are essential to feat choice? That streamlines "special abilities" to the feat mechanic and keeps the sacred cows.

 

[Ry]

In the end, the difference between getting a talent every odd level and a feat every even level, and simply getting a feat every level with access to class-only feats is no difference at all.

That's exactly my point.

 

[Nifft]

Well... a level is a very limited resource. Levels grant stuff that can't be gained in any other way (skill points, BAB, saving throws, hit points).

Levels also unlock other resources (feats, talents, special abilities like Turn Undead or Smite) which in turn can serve to unlock more feats & talents.

Levels do another thing, too: they moderate specialization. Everyone should have at least a +6 base save for any arbitrary saving throw -- with some more pure number buy systems, you can easily create a character who has really stark vulnerabilities.

Right now in D&D, by 20th level your bad save may be really heinous, but that's more due to the influence of magic and stat-boosters IMHO. I'd like to see the elimination of "arms race" items (stat boosters and save boosters).

-- N

 

[D.Shaffer]

I say remove the (warrior) monk concept entirely to Oriental Adventures.

Why? While the actual name and some of the background might be from OA, unarmed combat styles arent exactly restricted to the Asian continent. Just rename it to 'Unarmed Warrior' and it's fine. When you get right down to it, the Monk is just a warrior that focuses on punches/kicks rather then manufactured weapons. Everything else is flavor text.

 

[Gentlegamer]

Why? While the actual name and some of the background might be from OA, unarmed combat styles arent exactly restricted to the Asian continent. Just rename it to 'Unarmed Warrior' and it's fine. When you get right down to it, the Monk is just a warrior that focuses on punches/kicks rather then manufactured weapons. Everything else is flavor text.

Occidental warriors are pretty much uniformly armed. Unarmed martial arts is almost wholly oriental and fits in better in that setting.

Really, what a monk ought to be is the oriental "dex-based fighter." The occidental "dex-based fighter" is probably the swashbuckler (duelist, or whatever you want to call it).

 

[Ry]

Agreed. While unarmed fighting in the West definitely is part of the martial tradition, it's still being done by the fellas that wear armor and use swords, or the fellas that use swords but don't wear armor.

 

[the Lorax]

The problem with less classes is, that too few of them means you don't need them at all. I think that 4 is really the lowest possible variant, but 5 is better and 6 is optimal. And magical abilities might be available to everyone, just some classes would be better with it (thanks to talent trees).

Mage (kind of a Jedi)
Inteligence as dominant ability

Priest (as well kind of a Jedi)
Wisdom as dominant ability

Warrior (soldier)
Strength as dominant ability

Rogue (scoundrel)
Dexterity as dominant ability

Monk (scout)
Constitution as dominant ability

Bard (noble)
Charisma as dominant ability

I have long thought that d20 Modern is a really good template for D&D to take.

Base Classes named for the Stat that they focus on, Advanced classes looking more like current Fighter/Cleric/Wizard/Rogue/ect. and Prestiege classes being something that is truely prestigeous - and something that you don't get to enter until somewhere between 7th and 10th at the mimimum.

You can always write a new talent tree for Base or Advanced classes that would direct the course of the character's development.

Thus, Current classes could be qualified for in the fastest way something like this (without a lot of thought put into it):

Barbarian = 2 Tough, 1 Strong
Bard = 1 Smart, 2 Charismatic
Cleric = 3 Wise
Druid = 1 Tough, 2 Wise
Fighter = 3 Tough
Monk = 1 Tough, 1 Strong, 1 Fast
Paladin = 2 Strong, 1 Wise
Ranger = 2 Tough, 1 Fast
Rogue = 3 Fast
Sorcerer = 1 Charismatic, 2 Smart
Wizard = 3 Smart