D&D SHOULD NOT have a defined atmosphere/style *Semi Rant*

[Sundragon2012]

I love D&D 3.X and the D20 system and the wonderful OGL system and the opportunities it opened up for folks like me to create things that others can enjoy.

I would never go back to the old system. I was complaining about things, more stylistic issues at first than anything else. Somehow, partially through my own lack of clarity I am sure, this discussion got conflated into me actually wanting a return to 1e or 2e.

This is not the case. If I didn't love the system I wouldn't be busting my ass to make balanced modification where necessary to reflect the kind of setting I am crafting in regard to mood and atmosphere.

3.X is my game.....though I am going to be checking out True 20.


Chris

 

[Akrasia]

...
83.41% prefer the current edition
10.49% prefer an earlier edition
...

Of course, if this is based on a poll conducted here at Enworld, it is useless. Message board polls should never be taken as 'evidence' of anything.

I mean, I don't doubt that the vast majority of people who post at Enworld like 3e. It is the d20 place, after all.

But message board polls should never be used as 'evidence' for anything. Using them to support a point is ... silly. :\

 

[Crothian]

Getting it now, in the PDF form, it has no setting to it at all, really, so it's probably as close as one can get to a systemless D20 game system. How much spell/arcana information is in the PDF, though?

I don't know, I'm happy just using Blue Rose. In Blue Rose they have a lot of good magic info and hopefully they included most of that.

 

[Akrasia]

Oh yeah....and for all you greybeards who agree with me in this little rant o' mine....nothing like really chiming in to fend off the hoary hosts as I struggled to stand upon my shaky, largely emotional, ground and was battered left and right by the power of true believers.


Chris

Well, I'm a 'greybeard' (started with Holmes basic set -- the one with chits, not dice -- back in 1979).

I already posted that I liked the 'feel' of the 1e AD&D game more than 3e way back in the beginning of this thread. Plus I hate the 3e art.

I also agree that 3e is the first edition to assume certain amounts of magic items per level. Earlier editions did not assume this -- claims to the contrary are bogus.

Beyond that, though, I think 'feel' can be to some extent controlled by the DM. I ran two 3e campaigns, and ran them very 'old school' in terms of feel and experience progression. (I now think that other systems are better for my goals as a GM, but whatever.)

....though I am going to be checking out True 20....

I dig True 20, and heartily recommend it. I also recommend looking at Castles & Crusades if you want a 'd20' game with a simple framework and a strong '1e AD&D' feel. Gary Gygax is writing up his original Castle Greyhawk (redubbed 'Castle Zagyg') for C&C! WFRP 2e is also worth a look.

Good luck!

 

[Akrasia]

... This is not the case. If I didn't love the system I wouldn't be busting my ass to make balanced modification where necessary to reflect the kind of setting I am crafting in regard to mood and atmosphere. ...

For what it's worth, I too found changing 3e in order to suit my campaign setting to be a major pain. It is possible, but d20 is not that easily tweaked IME. If you change a few things, it can have all kinds of 'unintended consequences' (e.g. get rid of AoOs, and suddenly spellcasters become even more powerful than before; eliminate magic items and nonspellcasters get hosed; etc.).

OTOH, as people have already pointed out, there are plenty of OGL games available that have already done all the 'tweaking' and 'balancing' for you. What a Conan style game? Conan from Mongoose! Etc.

 

[Quasqueton]

Of course, if this is based on a poll conducted here at Enworld, it is useless. Message board polls should never be taken as 'evidence' of anything.

So you don't think a poll that asks people here "Do you like D&D[3]?" will accurately reflect whether people here like D&D[3]?

I mean, I don't doubt that the vast majority of people who post at Enworld like 3e.

That's what the poll shows.

I would suspect the same poll taken at Dragonsfoot would get the exact opposite results. Would you discount that poll too?

Quasqueton

 

[The Shaman]

I mean, I don't doubt that the vast majority of people who post at Enworld like 3e. It is the d20 place, after all.

But message board polls should never be used as 'evidence' for anything. Using them to support a point is ... silly. :\

Quoted for emphasis.

 

[The Shaman]

That's what the poll shows.

I would suspect the same poll taken at Dragonsfoot would get the exact opposite results. Would you discount that poll too?

My answer is, "Who ing cares?"

Yes, 3e D&D is very popular - so what? That doesn't mean that people who don't care for it are "haters," Quasqueton - it simply means it's not to their tastes.

Forgive me but you seem to find it important to prove that somehow people who don't care for 3e are "wrong" because they dislike something you enjoy.

 

[Thorin Stoutfoot]

A
The fact of the matter is that any game exceeding 14th level gets broken/unbalanced/whatever. The core rules assume a certain $$ = power equivilent and uses that to balance out encounters. At low levels it works just fine.

I disagree. I ran a 3e/3.5e game from 1st to 20th using nothing but published adventures, and the rules as written are balanced (especially after the 3.5 upgrade). No PC outshone another, and the game did not break. The PCs did get more and more effective, but that was mostly because the players play the same PC over and over again, while the DMs play each monster at most once or twice. If I knew the monsters as well as the players knew the PCs, the deadliness factor at high levels (18-20th) would be just as high as they were at 1st level.

And here's another antidote to the 1/2e nostalgia. Most of my players are old-timers, and near the end of the campaign, one of the players wrote to me literally begging for me to not end the campaign too soon because he was about to get access to 9th level spells, and despite his years of gaming had NEVER gotten access to 9th level spells. He got to play with 9th level spells in my game before the campaign ended and it was very satisfying for him emotionally. I never even heard of or saw 1e/2e adventures set up for 20th level characters.

 

[Quasqueton]

Forgive me but you seem to find it important to prove that somehow people who don't care for 3e are "wrong" because they dislike something you enjoy.

A completely false statement. Where are you getting this?

Let me quote Akrasia from another thread to express my stance:

I don't have a problem with people expressing their opinions about various games. On that people are bound to disagree -- just as they disagree in their opinions concerning films, music, or whatever.

But when people make factually incorrect claims about a game system (especially a system that you happen to like), or express their opinions as though they were facts, then it is hard to resist posting a reply.

The OP here, and a couple responders, made incorrect claims about D&D3. One even right out insulted everyone who likes the game (which, as I pointed out is over 80% of the people here).

In this thread, Akrasia and The Shaman have both stated their distaste with D&D3. And you have done it without insulting anyone, without making false statements about the game, and generally stayed polite. I appreciate that and have no problem with it.

I can fully accept someone's differing taste.

Quasqueton