D&D Social Stigma

[kenobi65]

I'd say in some places the stigma might eventually vanish if local news and other media didn't keep it alive. Take the commercial where the geek is giving the supermodel a copy of the PHB. Nice and funny, esp to see the PHB on national TV, but look at the commercial again: the guy portrayed is still a geek and the viewer is not supposed to take it seriously that he's actually dating this women, etc. The commercial is using (a technical term I don't remember the name for, but it involves using radically juxtaposed images for comedic effect).

It's an ad for a Whirlpool washing machine ("the perfect marriage of beauty and brains")...and in the ad, it's the supermodel giving her nerd boyfriend / fiance a PHB as a gift.

 

[William Ronald]

Do we have anyone from law enforcement (esp. municipal) on the boards? I know that in the 80's, Puling made presentations to various city police departments about the dangers of D&D. I have no idea if she was taken seriously. I know that in the late 80's and early 90's cult experts also did this (and in almost every book on cults I've seen, D&D is mentioned in some way, either as a danger sign or as a side effect). I have no idea if they were taken seriously or not.

Michael Stackpole examined Patricia Pulling's claims in The Pulling Report. It does a wonderful job in countering her claims.

 

[cuteasaurus]

I might not be an expert in human relations, I'm pretty sure that talking about your hobbies and interests with people in normal. Its how you get to know people and decide if you want to be friends. Maybe if you talk about cello or d&d with someone outside of your orchestra or gaming group...you'll disover another potential gamer or ochestra member???

Conversation.
Its part of being social.

And for the gamers who don't understand that, it sort of proves the whole gamers = socially inept scary basement dwellers stereotype doesnt it?

And I am a BIG supporter of stereotypes exist because they are TRUE.
But I don't consider the fact that I'm a fat, pony-tailed, glasses-wearing, black tshirt, wearing, game playing, comic book reading, internet surfing, card-carrying GEEK a bad thing.
The bad parts of the stigma aren't the way we look, or the related hobbies.
The bad stereotype is the hygeine-challenged, socially inept, satan-worshipping, friendless, basement dwelling loser who's never seen a woman.

I don't even know what to say- your need to be rude about what you think seems to go beyond anything I've said. I will say though that why you think that because I don't bore people who don't know bass from treble clef with my opinons on Yo Yo Ma's latest recording of X means I don't know how to converse is beyond my understanding. As many people on this board who know me in real life can attest, I have better than average social skills and I don't think you need to talk about EVERY hobby with EVERY person you know in order to "be social." Conversation is about talking about areas of shared interest. I'm not hiding my inherent nerdiness but nor am I making it a mandatory topic with every person I meet. I have other things to talk about, so excuse me for not "taking up the cross" for dnd.

 

[The_Universe]

RPGs are a hobby (a great one) but not a lifestyle. If you treat them as a lifestyle, you're going to perpetuate the stigma, since you're elevating an activity on par with fantasy football or fly fishing above other (more important) parts of life. People who take *anything* too seriously have stereotypical stigmas attached to them - even fishermen and fantasy football players. The extremes of any group will be met with derision because they *are* strange and different.

As a hobby, D&D (and RPGs in general) are totally safe. They're not that strange, not that different. As a lifestyle, D&D is bizarre and should be treated as such. It's not about the money or time you spend - it's all about how important it is in relation to everything else. Make it too important - and its weird.

So let's play a game, not live a lifestyle. If we can do that, people will think it's less weird.

It's certainly not worth "carrying a cross" or "crusading" for the "cause" of RPGs.

 

[Psion]

I think another reason for the social stigma is that it's self-perpetuating. I've run into a few people who don't like to publicly admit that they play D&D because they don't want to have this stigma applied to them. If you want other people to stop seeing it as something to be embarrassed about, then stop acting like it's something to be embarrassed about.

Heh. I remember when I was still in the Navy, on telling one of my friends that I played RPGs, she said that I didn't seem like the sort.

Considering the sort of "cat piss man" stereotype of gamer she probably had in mind, I probably should have taken it as more of a compliment than I did at the time.

 

[WayneLigon]

Michael Stackpole examined Patricia Pulling's claims in The Pulling Report. It does a wonderful job in countering her claims.

Yes, I know and everyone on this board knows she was a crackpot of the first water. No-one else knows that. Did that GAMA report go to all the police departments she poisoned? I don't recall. But how many beleived her versus someone who worked in the villified industry, distributed by said villified industry group? (Look at how that looks in other fields: Report A comes out about dangers of Drug X. Reports B comes out about how Drug X is perfectly safe and harmless. Later investigation finds that the people who out out Report B work for a research group funded by the makers of Drug X. Does anyone in their right minds believe that Report B is not biased? No. Spin wasn't invented in the Nineties.)

 

[GVDammerung]

IMO, the "Stigma" has been blown out of all proportion.

Sure. There are some oddball gamers. There are some creepy/unsavory gamers. There are some poorly socialized/socially skilled gamers. But much the same can be said about other hobby populations, I think.

Many RPGamers, however, have been very vocal and public about the "stigma" and some will wear it as a preverse badge of honor in a sort of almost "martyedom." Their "acting out" makes good newspaper, magazine, television and book copy. And they apparently like the attention and "act out" even more, even while saying just the opposite.

The "social stigma" gives some gamers a "cachet" that self-defines them as an "in group," persecuted by "ignorant" or "wrong" people from the "outside." It validates them.

These people are a minority, in my experience, but they have gotten all the press and attention. Most gamers, in my experience, are quite normal. If there is a "stigma" it is not wanting to be seen as one of the few but loud "wierdos."

It helps matter not at all, IMO, when Wotc talks about a "gaming lifestyle" and Dungeon promotes a "gaming lifestyle" column by "self-described uber geek" Wil Wheaton (thank god that embarrassment is overwith) who uses that nominclature to sell his appearances and writing in a grand self-promotion at the expense of the public perception of the hobby.

There is no "gamer lifestyle." Just as there is no "baseball card lifestyle." No "cribbage lifestyle." No "chess lifestyle." Etc. Some people may take things to such an extreme that they can create such a "lifestyle" but it is just that - an extreme - not the norm, IME.

Gamers, IMO, are their own worst enemies by letting others define them and also by defining themselves in nearly the same negative terms. "The Industry" is as much to blame, particularly Wotc and old TSR whose ads for games, when they do/did appear, show gamers grinning like morons or acting out like it.

The "Stigma" may not be all in the mind, but it is far from the reality in most situations, which is much less sensationalist.

IMO

 

[paulsometimes]

As far as being considered geeky, I don't really care. Right now, geek is cool. Ten years from now it won't be and then ten years from that it will be again. So the cycle goes. The stigma that I hate, though I've seen it often earned, is the hygiene-challenged basement dweller. Seriously, if you live in the U.S.A., you can take a shower. I don't know if these people are allergic to water or what, but they need to find some way of washing themselves. Washing their clothes wouldn't be a bad idea either.

As for who we introduce this hobby too, or "carrying the cross" for it: People don't just force their hobbies into conversation. The hobby may come up naturally, such as sports, or it may not. So it goes. But I don't feel the need to proclaim my love for gaming to everyone I meet. I'm obviously not ashamed of gaming if I sit on at work all day reading message boards such as this one.

 

[jaerdaph]

...goatee-wearing....

DANG IT! I'm shaving it off tonight...

 

[William Ronald]

Yes, I know and everyone on this board knows she was a crackpot of the first water. No-one else knows that. Did that GAMA report go to all the police departments she poisoned? I don't recall. But how many beleived her versus someone who worked in the villified industry, distributed by said villified industry group? (Look at how that looks in other fields: Report A comes out about dangers of Drug X. Reports B comes out about how Drug X is perfectly safe and harmless. Later investigation finds that the people who out out Report B work for a research group funded by the makers of Drug X. Does anyone in their right minds believe that Report B is not biased? No. Spin wasn't invented in the Nineties.)

I am not sure how many people believed Pulling and if GAMA or other organizations actively tried to counter her remarks. I do agree that the organizations like The Ontario Center for Religious Tolerance , which is not a gaming industry group, might be given greater credence than someone who has an obvious axe to grind. Perhaps someone from law enforcement or another knowledgeable person can comment on how well Pulling was received and were things stand now.