D&D spellcasters in the modern world

[mythusmage]

The USSC could decide to interpret that portion of the US Constitution a bit more narrowly. Holding that that provision rules out falseself incrimination.

Zone of Truth would also make life harder for crooked prosecutors as well.

Here's an idea, though. Install a permanent Zone of Truthin the police interrogation room. The cops would not be able to make false accusations, and so it would simplify investigations.

On a quasi-related note. I once asked a former detective what he would ask if he could question a murder victim. He replied, "What would you ask them?"

I answered, "How did you die? Did you see who did it? What happened after you died? What did he do?"

And he said, "That's pretty much what I would ask."

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

On a quasi-related note. I once asked a former detective what he would ask if he could question a murder victim. He replied, "What would you ask them?"

Duh. We've been going on about zone of truth but Speak with dead would be just as useful. Even if the testimony of a dead person wasn't admissable in court, you can bet they'd be using it in the field to point them in the right direction.

 

[Chrisling]

Re: Re: Detect evil and those spells

That's why I believe people are so good at denying the existence of good and evil, even in the real world. It's very difficult to live a life where you actually look at each choice you make and put it on the scale. And it's even harder to live a life where you don't have to because your conscience always beats you to it.

Well, yeah, actually, I believe this, too. ;p I hate having a moment of <i>epoche</i> and then realizing that the thought is actually quite pedestrian.

 

[Chrisling]

Science is catching up to magic. Mechanical telepathy is already admissable in court. See: http://brainfingerprinting.com/PressReleaseAdmissibility102.htm

While this does not speak as to whether any particular magic spell would be legal in court, it's interesting to see what the law is doing on related issues.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Science is catching up to magic. Mechanical telepathy is already admissable in court. See: http://brainfingerprinting.com/PressReleaseAdmissibility102.htm

Really, it's not fundamentally different from a lie detector test. It just has better resolution and a more advanced testing method. It's going to be susceptible to some of the same confounds that lie detectors are, though to a lesser extent. There's a potential for abuse by corrupt prosecutors and police, though. I can think of a couple ways to force a false positive, though perhaps their specific experimental design addresses some of them.

To be honest, I am unconvinced that it's going to remain admissable. It seems far too sound and reliable for our legal system to keep it. But that's a confirmed governmental and judiciary cynic talking.

 

[Michael Tree]

Hey, Mr. Canadian trying to tell the lawyer in the US about US law and the Constitution...you're wrong.

Mr. Canadian studying Law and legal psychology in the US, thankyouverymuch.

You are right that "clearly unconstitutional" was way too strong a phrase. How about "could easily be interpreted as unconstitutional"?

1) The 5th amendment only applies to a criminal defendant, not witnesses and victims, nor civil cases at all. So all police interrogators would cast the spell, and all witnesses (including the victim) would be speakig to a judge and a grand jury with a detect lies spell in effect. Almost no criminal matter would go to trial because of this.

So it would be a good safeguard against perjury, if it is allowed.

However, asking a criminal defendent "did you do it?" under the effects of the spell likely would be considered self-incrimination

I still have serious doubts that it would be allowed. Both zone of truth and discern lies allow saving throws, so it's not a completely reliable measure of truthfulness. It's better than lie-detector tests certainly, but may fall under the same ban.

2) How would divinations be restricted by the Constitution? Maybe you are referring to the right to privacy, which is a very limited right. Unless the crime happened in your own home or property, you have no right to privacy when committing a crime.

I wouldn't be surprised if the right to privacy was expanded to include a person's thoughts, and other intrusive divinations. There's no current provision for that, but then there's no need for one either.

- Michael Schloss

 

[s/LaSH]

Political assasinations would happen using scrying, teleportation, and a signle true-strike spell. No world leader would last more than a couple of months.
Doubtful. Political leaders will have access to 10 times the magical resources of the average assassin. Can you imagine a dozen secret-service wizards in black robes and pointy hats, with wires in their ears, flying alongside the presiden't car?
[/B]

Better yet: screen. It's right next to scrying in the PHB, and completely roots it. I'm sure someone will figure out how to bind it to a car. I've used screen against a party that can teleport, and they still haven't figured out what's happening. So it's 8th level - intelligence services do all their recruiting from universities, don't they? (Well, most of it, I guess.) My point: An area that's been screened is almost teleport-proof. You really can set up a magical fortress if you want to, proof against anything but a good old-fashioned dungeon crawl by the assassins. (Module WH-1: The White House. Sorry, bad taste.)

Now on the topic of extraplanar emigration: It wouldn't happen too fast. These other planes would either have border control already, or institute it really fast when they realised all these smelly humans were flooding in. Really, if you can fly, teleport at will, and break rocks by looking at them sternly, do you want these tiny tourists wandering around with cameras going, 'Ooh! Pretty!" and then dropping coke bottles in the Spring Of Eternal Beauty?

In addition, there's the whole extraplanar politics thing going on. Even amongst the good planes there's supposed to be rivalry, and the evil planes have the Blood War. Let's not even start trying to describe the internal politics of the Abyss. Now, in the real world, if you have a passport stamp from Israel you can't get into Indonesia (or so I hear). The outer planes would be similarly mistrusting of anyone who tried to get in, and if they've been somewhere else... whoo boy, I pity the tourist who tries to go from the celestial planes to a motel owned by Bowel-Tearer the Balor.

I think that the argument about extraplanar technology comes down to what Arthur C. Clarke said: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. All outsiders have innate magical powers that no mortal can hope to emulate. That's an edge, right there. Outsiders will always be superior to the vast majority of prime planers. No matter the source of magic, the outsiders have it, and they probably don't need technology. Jet planes? No, I can teleport at will. Shotguns? According to the rules in the DMG, a balor cannot be harmed by a point-blank shotgun blast that would tear most people in half. (3d6 damage vs. damage reduction 20 or so.) Is this because the balor is naturally tough from evolving in a pit of hellfire? Is it a genetically modified warrior race? Is it wearing a symboiotic cybernetic armour entity? Who cares? It can shrug off a shotgun blast, and that's all we know. Can it teleport by opening a paradimensional wormhole with a casimir device-type effect on a quantum level, or does it use magic to access the astral plane? Again, you don't know because it makes no difference.

I do like the idea of Secret Service Pointyheads, though. Ooh! Idea: Tyres Of The Zephyr. Like the horseshoes only for vehicles. That would screw up many equatorial economies. "We don't need to buy more rubber, our tyres don't suffer friction any more." One tiny thing makes all the difference...