D&D vs D20

[Razuur]

Tha is funny. I am kindof in the same boat as Joshua Dyal here.

When we get together to game, we don't get together to DnD. We get together to D20.

We even say that. "What are we playing this Wednesday?"

"D20 Fantasy" or "Time Lord D20" or "World of Darkness D20" or whatever.

I see DnD as portayed in the core books as pretty limiting. but I *LOVE* third party material. There is some really good stuff out there. Stuff that is all D20, and only shares the core mechanics of DnD.

Razuur

 

[Psion]

When we get together to game, we don't get together to DnD. We get together to D20.

We even say that. "What are we playing this Wednesday?"

"D20 Fantasy" or "Time Lord D20" or "World of Darkness D20" or whatever.

Lord knows I use a ton of third party material. But it's still D&D to me.

If I were playing Freeport, Oathbound, or Scarred Lands, it's still D&D.

If I were playing something extremely switched up like Midnight, I might feel different.

 

[Krieg]

Lord knows I use a ton of third party material. But it's still D&D to me.

D&D is dead..........long live D20.

 

[Ranger REG]

I doubt D&D is over going to be dead. It's about as household as Pepsi is to Shasta.

And as long as D&D is tied to d20, both could live off each other's benefits.

As for a "d20 System Core Rulebook," it would be way too generic and way too bland. You have no choice but to inject flavor in the form of "plug-ins" or "campaign models," just to get customers to use the rulebook (and only the rulebook) to play the game. You can't possibly sell the ruleset and a setting sourcebook separately. It has to be a total package for it to be a complete game, especially if you intend to sell this to customers of various gaming experiences (newbies to veterans).

 

[Thanee]

Wizards have done it four times (Star Wars, Wheel of Time, d20 Modern and Call of Cthulhu). Mongoose has done it several times (Conan, Stargate, etc.. AEG has done it several times (Spycraft and others). Green Ronin has done it several times (Tesament, Mutants & Mastermind, Skull and Bones, Blue Rose and others) Badaxe Games probably did it best, since Grim Tales is the most flexible toolkit approach to d20 out there. The others are typically adaptations of d20 to a different setting than a D&Dish setting.

Sorry, your post is incredibly ill-informed. In fact, it's flat-out 180-degrees wrong.

Huh? None of the books you listed are generic rulebooks (I don't know Grim Tales, tho). They are all highly specialized (d20 modern comes close, but even that is not generic).

BTW, I nowhere claimed, that the underlying d20 system mechanics aren't generic, but those are only a fraction of the whole. Maybe you didn't get the meaning of my post correctly (it might be a bit misleading, tho, admittedly ).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Krieg]

I doubt D&D is over going to be dead. It's about as household as Pepsi is to Shasta.

And as long as D&D is tied to d20, both could live off each other's benefits.

My point is that 3E has moved far enough from it's roots that I don't really consider it to be D&D anymore. It is a D20 conversion of D&D.

Notice I am not making a value statement as to whether that is good or bad, just that it isn't the same.

 

[Ranger REG]

My point is that 3E has moved far enough from it's roots that I don't really consider it to be D&D anymore. It is a D20 conversion of D&D.

We must have two different set of eyes. I myself consider the d20 System-based Dungeons & Dragons to be a vast improvement of past [Advanced] Dungeons & Dragons games.

But if you consider the two separate multiclassing systems (multiclassing and dual-classing), the combat matrices or THAC0 formula, the attribute-heavy Proficiency system, the various class XP tables, the d%-based thieving skills, and many more I might have missed crucial to D&D, then I for one do not miss it at all.

Notice I am not making a value statement as to whether that is good or bad, just that it isn't the same.

A perfectly natural reaction to change. I experienced it myself when I first heard the announcement of 3e few years ago. I jokingly asked, "How could they do it better?" Thanks to Eric Noah's 3e News Web Site, I was expressly informed of the changes, and I liked what I've seen, even before the first core rulebook was released.

Granted, it is not perfect, but it is a big leap toward that goal. I think from here we should refine the rules, be it 4e or some other incarnation. (Castles & Crusades?)

 

[Acid_crash]

All I know about D&D is that if I post on the board down at my FLGS that I want to run a "D&D" game, I know that I would possibly get a group of four to six people, all with the player's handbook, and all thinking along the same conventions of how the game is played, run, and the kinds of encounters they would expect to see.

If I mention any other game down at my FLGS, 19 of 20 times I am the ONLY person with the player's guide, I might get one or two likely candidates willing to play something different than D&D, and they wouldn't have a clue as to what to do, or how to create a character, without really good instruction.

D&D, to me, is its own world, its own genre within the fantasy genre, and it definately brings certain expectations to mind when just the name Dungeons and Dragons is brought up in a conversation. I don't think there is a game that can do D&D better than D&D itself.

 

[Turjan]

If I mention any other game down at my FLGS, 19 of 20 times I am the ONLY person with the player's guide, I might get one or two likely candidates willing to play something different than D&D, and they wouldn't have a clue as to what to do, or how to create a character, without really good instruction.

Just to get an idea: Which games did you try finding players for?

 

[Psion]

My point is that 3E has moved far enough from it's roots that I don't really consider it to be D&D anymore. It is a D20 conversion of D&D.

Notice I am not making a value statement as to whether that is good or bad, just that it isn't the same.

Classes. Levels. Spell slots. Dungeons. Etc.

Let's just say I don't agree with your assessment. If you are not going to use the trademark as definition, what is D&D expands, not contracts.