D&D with no Armour: could it work?

[nikolai]

I've been reading the D&D with no (magic) healing thread with interest.

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=91432&page=1&pp=20

I've also been thinking of doing D&D with no (or reduced) armour. So monsters would still get natural armour but PC armour would be cut off at some point (no armour at all, no mail, no plate, etc). There are plenty of setting which this would be useful for.

Any suggestions for doing this and keeping balance? I know some groups have been known to get by with no heavy armour. But my instinct is that fighter-types would be shredded. Any ideas on the best way to make d20 work while detaching this part of the rules?

 

[Zappo]

The simple & lame solution is to start distributing armor substitutes - bracers of armor, rings of protection, amulets of natural armor, that sort of stuff.

A better idea is to start by asking yourself why you want no armor in the game. Depending on the answer, there are different solutions.

You could use a defense bonus mechanic similar to Star Wars d20 - basically, each class gets a plus to AC as it progresses in level.

 

[nute]

You could always use the Defense rules in Unearthed Arcana, where Defense (effective AC) goes up every level depending on class. Or simply have the setting be that where armor is something restricted to the military or really really rich folks, thus making that DEX bonus priceless to the players.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

What are you shooting for? If you're looking for a swashbuckler type feel, you can either adopt a level-based defensive bonus, or let characters add a secondary stat modifier (ie WIS or INT).

Attack bonuses already outstrip AC pretty quickly as you move up in levels; making that worse would make the game a *lot* more deadly, and a lot sooner. It would make low-mid levels especially hellish, as the players couldn't yet afford high-bonus magical chain shirts, etc., but their opponents would already be getting fairly high attack bonuses.

 

[The_Gneech]

One quick-and-dirty option would be to add Base Ref Save to AC as a dodge bonus, and Base Fort Save to hit points as a misc bonus -- thus rogues are much harder to hit, while warriors can suck up more damage.

Wizards, OTOH, are still just as screwed as always...

Under this setup, that surprise round becomes real important...

-The Gneech

 

[Spatula]

UA's defense bonus rules are a little screwy, as I recall. They are based off of your armor proficiencies and your character level, rather than your class levels like d20 Modern does. Which I can see the rationale for, but (IIRC) a monk could take a level of fighter (getting heavy armor proficiency) and get an incredible AC boost (or, because of multiclass restrictions, start as a fighter and take all future levels as a monk).

In d20 Modern, each class has a Defense bonus that works like BAB or save bonuses. Multiclass characters add up the Defense bonus from all their classes levels. And the class defense bonus stacks with armor. But if you wanted to dissaude the players from using armor, you could say they don't stack.

You can look at the d20 Modern online SRD at wizards.com for the Defense bonus numbers by class.

 

[dead]

Hmm, funny thing about Armor Class is that it includes "armor" AND "dodge" in the one figure.

You could do the following:

Divide AC into DF (Dodge Factor) and AR (Armor Rating).

DF is the character's Reflex Save while AR is AC minus the DEX bonus.

When someone attacks you, you now roll Dodge (a Ref save) versus the attacker's roll (d20 + Attack bonus). If you don't match or beat the attacker's score, then you check to see if he penetrated armor: if the attacker's score is the same or higher than your AR then the blow has penetrated.

A player once asked me: "How come my character with a +15 Reflex bonus and Evasion can dodge a Lightning Bolt but has got almost no chance dodging a pie being thrown at him (ranged touch attack)?" He said: "The ranged touch attack brings my AC down to under 15! I'm a sitting duck!"

He argued that PCs should be able to "dodge" weapons and ranged attacks just like they are allowed to "dodge" spells and traps with Reflex.

 

[jollyninja]

the wheel of time setting book also has a system and uses classes similar to base dnd. they are used to make up for the lack of magic items but they could aso replace armor. conversion would be fairly simple.

 

[Mac Callum]

What kind of changes do folks think would be needed?

Rogues, Rangers & Monks with their good REF saves would get quite a power boost. How do fighters make up for this? I mean, really, a Fighter should be the best at anticipating incoming blows and avoiding them. Rogues avoid combat for a reason. Fighters should also be the best at parrying blows with a weapon on a regular basis (the Swashbuckler model).

It seems if you want to keep Fighters, Paladins & Barbarians as the premier Warrior-types, the Defense bonus should be linked to the BAB, not the REF save. There's a difference between Dodging/ Parrying/ Deflecting a sword strike, and avoiding an explosion.

Armor would have to have _some_ purpose. Damage Reduction?

I have WoT, but haven't played it, so I'm not as familiar with the rules as I could be.

PS - This would be a huge benefit to Wiz/Sor multiclassed characters, since a high Defense Bonus would not interfere with their spellcasting. Gestalted ones would be even more over-the-top.

 

[Myrddin ap Taliesen]

The Grim and Gritty rules might work well for what you seem to be going for. You have 2 scores, defense and armor. Defense is 10+DEX bonus+level bonuses - armor check penalty. Armor uses the AC of your armor, but changes it into damage reduction. So effectively if you're wearing heavy armor you'll get hit more (due to inability to dodge when weighed down) but won't get as damaged (due to the protection the armor confers).