D&d xp

[Hawke]

Ah! So basically the Ranger picks short swords (+3 / 1d6) and the Avenger picks a Longspear (+2 / 1d10) and they're closer to even. I'm eager to see a Twin Strike Short Sword ranger compared to Enmtiy Longspear Avenger.

(not because I think when we find out one is better at a specific task it means omgclasswin!1 but because I'm curious and it's fun)

 

[Cadfan]

Give me a default AC and I'll get you an answer.

Lets say that we have some feats involved. Our level 1 Avenger is using an Executioner's Axe, because he listened to me and went for high damage and high criticals. Our level 1 Ranger is using twin Bastard Swords. Both have 18 strength. Both are fighting a monster with AC 15. The Ranger is using Twin Strike, and the Avenger is using something that doesn't have an effect on accuracy or damage (either one of the previewed at wills will not modify expected damage, though they do provide positioning benefits).

The Ranger has +7 attack, will deal 1d10 on a hit, and +1d6 if he hits at least once. He gets two attacks.

The Avenger has +6 attack, will deal 1d12+4, Brutal 2, High Crit on a hit, and he gets to pick the better of two attack rolls.

The Ranger's expected damage, ignoring criticals, is .65*5.5 + .65*5.5 + (1-.35*.35)*3.5 = 3.575 + 3.575 + 3.07125 = 10.22125. He also could have attacked two enemies with this at will, if he chose.

The Avenger's expected damage, ignoring criticals, is (1-.4*.4)*11.5 = 9.66. He also gets some positioning advantage.

Lets say we add in critical hits... give me a moment and I'll edit...

The Ranger's expected damage, including criticals, is .6*5.5 + .6*5.5 + .05*10 + .05*10 + (1-.4*.4)*3.5 + (1-.95*.95)*6 = 3.3 + 3.3 + .5 + .5 + 2.94 + .585 = 11.125

The Avenger's expected damage, including criticals, is (1-.45*.45)*11.5 + (1-.95*.95)*19 = 9.17125 + 1.8525 = 11.02375.

Darn close, actually. Right now the Ranger has more opportunity to boost his damage (weapon focus works twice for him, once per sword, and he can boost the die of his quarry damage), but who knows what the Avenger gets for feats.

The Ranger is another class that rewards critical hits, for the record. Since bonus dice are maximized, and since it gets two attack rolls.

 

[fba827]

I notice that the Invoker doesn't have the summon power chosen... bummer!

I don't think they would have picked it for this pregen character -- I have a feeling that describing the summoning keyword will take a paragraph, given they are limited to just two sides of a page they probably went for the more concise power choices.

Please, explain a bit here... I'm having a lot of trouble making out the details of it beyond the first few sentences... must be late and the old eyes are tired!

Yeah, it does hurt my eyes too. But here are a couple bits I could see.

* The attacks were (at least the powers chosen for this pregen avenger) all weapon vs ac types.

* A bonus to AC similar to the swordmage's with some restrictions

* The oath of enmity - though i could not read most of it - seemed to be the hardcore avenger defining feature.. basically the person they are calling out as the person they are going to "mess up" in the name of their faith.

* There were two channel divinity feats. One was anti undead. And the other lets an ally attacking your oath target get a reroll on the attack.

* (something) of Pursuit Avenger Attack 1 at-will. some damage and shift

* Overwhelming Sacrifice Avenger Attack 1 at-will some damage and shift/slide to switch places with target

* Oath of Enmity Avenger Feature encounter (special) minor action

* Furious Assault Halforc racial power (encounter; free action when you hit an enemy it deals extra damage and (something)

* whirlwind charge Avenger attack 1 (encounter) can use in place of a melee basic attack when charging and gain bonus to ac against OAs while charging to target

* R(something) Escape Avenger Utility 2 encounter. teleport when enemy (something)

* Sequestering Strike Avenger Attack 3 encounter. damage and you and target teleport away from the fray

* Aspect of Might Avenger Attack 1 Daily it has a hit/miss damage but also an effect to grant bonus to athletics checks, speed, and damage rolls until the end of the encounter


Note I am treating this like preview/scoop material. So just trying to keep it to basic concept of the powers (not mentioning specific numbers/etc); but if this somehow violates the "don't post WotC material wholecloth" then mods are free to edit my post.

Edit: It's late and I'm too tired to make this pretty but later i may slightly reformat the above and fix some of my spelling mistakes

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I wonder how the Avenger's AC will compare to the Swordmage which has potentially the highest AC (Hide prof + Hide Specialization + maxed out int + Coronal Guard)...

 

[Nymrohd]

Well I did some number crunching. When you hit on a roll of 7 or higher to a roll of 15 or higher oath of enmity is the equivalent of a +4-+5 attack bonus. Outside that range it does drop ofc. Yet considering that this is the range where your chances to hit should be, I think it is quite the amazing class feature.

 

[SoulStorm]

How long before someone makes a paragon multiclassed avenger/ranger with twin strike?

 

[yesnomu]

How long before someone makes a paragon multiclassed avenger/ranger with twin strike?

Probably not long. Since their AC will be garbage (avengers need a hand free) and half their attacks will use only one weapon, I think it's fair enough.

 

[Nymrohd]

Thing is, while the avenger's trick (from what little we know) is unique and seems fun, it doesn't play well with most any other melee. The rogue needs combat advantage, the fighter and the warlord mostly give boni? to adjacent allies.

 

[Campbell]

Interestingly enough, it looks like Avengers also have Defender style hp, but Leader/Striker style surges.

 

[Remathilis]

Is it possible an avenger is not, in fact, a striker but a defender? Something akin to an... "anti"-paladin?

I might be wrong, but they could the bastard offspring of a swordmage (def) and paladin (def).