d20 Companies: Less = More Purchases?

[JoeGKushner]

In another thread, about the best companies, it was noted that several were leaving the d20 field for greener pastures. With that in mind, is it a good thing?

I personally see it as a kinda shoulder shrug thing. I really don't think that having all that competition ever really did anything to make products overall better. Now I know I'll sound like a rude person or highly opinionated, but hey, I've always thought that the old art and high price tag was Atlas' downfall. Very few of my friends were willing to sink $30 bones into a 160 page hardcover with bad art. On the other end of the scale, I don't see this effecting companies that are primary PDF at all.

Other opinions?

 

[Crothian]

Ya, but Atlas was truely one of the few publishers to cover topics no one else does. That's why I buy their books, the content was always top notch even if the production value was not.

I think it was enevitible and as long as this whole OGL/d20 thing goes on we should see a trend of companies coming and companies going. It will really depend if the other comapnies try to take advantage of the others bailing out by either attracting their fans with similiar product or at least hiring up some of the best writers.

 

[2WS-Steve]

In the BotR thread I actually saw a comment that we shouldn't judge older releases by new release standards, since the average quality of book has gone up. That make's it sound like competition has had positive effect on quality. I'm not sure if you need a lot of competition to get that benefit, though.

Regarding Atlas, I've always felt that any problems they have with getting big sellers stems mainly from being too experimental to appeal to a wide audience. Which gives them a base of die-hard fans (like me), but might make the d20 market no more lucrative for them than the Feng Shui or Ars Magica market.

 

[Voadam]

Did atlas drop d20 from its game lines? I need to pay more attention to the news section. That's too bad if so, I really like the Penumbra Fantasy Bestiary and Nyambe. And now that I've started DMing again I've thought about getting the en route series and some more of their modules. Oh well.

I'm disappointed that companies are dropping out for other systems, I only look at d20/ogl games now whereas I used to get some of everything (Earthdawn, rolemaster, Ars Magica, Rifts, various White Wolf, etc.) for use with my D&D games and wing mechanics conversions. Now I can just get the vast amount of already compatible rules stuff on the topics I like. I was actually hoping for more dual stat books, such as the CoC new dreamlands one was severly disappointing not to have d20 mechanics for it, particularly when they have the license for WotC CoC d20.

 

[Ranger REG]

In another thread, about the best companies, it was noted that several were leaving the d20 field for greener pastures. With that in mind, is it a good thing?

I personally see it as a kinda shoulder shrug thing. I really don't think that having all that competition ever really did anything to make products overall better. Now I know I'll sound like a rude person or highly opinionated, but hey, I've always thought that the old art and high price tag was Atlas' downfall. Very few of my friends were willing to sink $30 bones into a 160 page hardcover with bad art. On the other end of the scale, I don't see this effecting companies that are primary PDF at all.

Other opinions?

It varies by publishers.

As stated before, companies like Atlas Games have been pushing the edge of d20 that gamers like. I don't know if the low sales prompted them to re-evaluate their business operation (everyone got hit hard with low sales of RPG in general in the last fiscal year) or for other non-financial reasons, but we gamers will sorely miss their Penumbra series in the near future (guess I better snatch up the remaining volumes).

In the past 4 years, we have seen many companies rise and fall due to d20. Pinnacle tried their hand in offering versions of Deadlands and Weird War II but they fell short of sales expectation, and yet we've seen unheard-of companies like Mongoose Publishing rise to the top from a startup beginning.

It doesn't matter where you're a well-established publisher or a small print press. In the end though, the products matter to the customers.

 

[trancejeremy]

Well, Atlas has always had ugly books. (As mentioned in a review last week on RPG.net, they probably produced the ugliest RPG book ever, Pandamonium). They focus on text content, not art.

But I would say no, it's not a good thing. I think that most of the companies that are leaving the d20 field are leaving not because they produced bad books, but they simply couldn't compete with other companies and such in terms of marketting.

Many of the remaining companies, like AEG and FFG, I swore off buying from long ago due to poor quality. Mongoose is in that general area, too, though I tend to buy their stuff used.

But those companies are much better at selling books and running a business than smaller companies like Atlas.

 

[Ranger REG]

Well, Atlas has always had ugly books.

Not always.

I like arts that seems to come from the medieval or renaissance period. Or tries to replicate those earlier artworks. Trying to modernize a fantasy artwork is like watching Kull the Conqueror with Kevin Sorbo's midwest speech.

I still prize my Dynasties & Demogogues book from the Penumbra series.

 

[Umbran]

In the BotR thread I actually saw a comment that we shouldn't judge older releases by new release standards, since the average quality of book has gone up. That make's it sound like competition has had positive effect on quality.

Corellation does not imply causation. The fact that products improved during a period of competition does not say that the competition caused the improvement.

More likely, I'd expect simple time to improve product to a certain degree. Many of the folks who enteed the market were new at producing RPG products, and it takes time to learn the trade.

The presence of many products in the market would allow designers to compare and contrast them, and their performance. But that's not the same as the competition actually driving people to make better products.

 

[Crothian]

Also many early products were rushed...

 

[jester47]

I think the biggest error was the failure to delay and update The Penumbra Fantasy Bestiary for 3.5. I think they lost a lot of sales for what otherwise was a smash product.

Aaron.