d20 Companies: Less = More Purchases?

talien said:
Also, MGE was willing to consider just about any pitch. In my opinion, they should have latched on to dependable authors like Mouseferatu and dropped a lot of other writers. And I say that realizing that I might have been one of the writers dropped. Mouseferatu is a proven talent who delivers quality product and has actual experience in the industry. A lot of time was wasted dealing with new authors who didn't follow through on projects. I really believe they were such nice guys that it hurt them.

Wow. That actually means a lot to hear. Thanks.

And no, you wouldn't have been dropped. That would've been foolish. :)

It's true, though, that Dave and Larry are two of the nicest guys I've yet dealt with in the industry. I hope they find a way to make a second go of it someday without losing too much of that. :)
 
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JoeGKushner said:
In another thread, about the best companies, it was noted that several were leaving the d20 field for greener pastures. With that in mind, is it a good thing?

It's neither good or bad. It's just a neutral development.

The first thing to remember is that for many companies that are getting out of d20, they have an alternative to fall back on. If their sales were this bad before d20, they'd just launch a new game, make a new edition of a current one, or bite the bullet and hope sales bounced back. d20 gives them the luxury of going back to what they used to do. d20 is also utterly alien to most RPG designers - it goes against a lot of what they like to do. Companies are learning the hard way that you need to be a D&D fan to make stuff that D&D players will like. IMO, most of the companies that have had trouble tried to make d20 products that appealed to non-d20 players, or they didn't have much of a marketing strategy, etc.

d20 is also a far different market than non-d20 games. It's much easier to sell a new game than a d20 supplement because there's less competition. d20 gamers have also, with four years of D&D 3 under their belts, acquired a much higher level of system mastery. They're better at spotting stuff that's poorly designed or simply useless to their games. When you get into the non-d20 market, you have a population of buyers that picks up new stuff for the sake of having new stuff. They're a smaller total population of buyers, but they're pretty eager to spread their cash around and aren't as discriminating when it comes to mechanics, as opposed to backgrounds.

(In other words, they're not as concerned with heavy or rigid mechanics as settings. I think there's a sizable number of non-d20 buyers who look at gaming books in the same way as SF fans look at paperbacks. They like to buy a new one or two per month just to read and put on a shelf, never to use it in a game. It's much lower risk, but much lower potential reward.)

The diminishing number of d20 publishers will have no effect on sales for existing companies. Gaming products aren't a necessity - it isn't like people have a minimum amount of money they must spend on gaming products each month.

The interesting thing lies in looking at how we got here. My personal theory is that the market is bifurcated between a very small number high end companies clustered at one end of the market in terms of mind share and brand value, and a lot of smaller companies that aren't very well known. It's hard for a company to move from the lower category to the higher one because so many companies dumped crap products on to the market early in d20's life cycle. Distributors and retailers quickly learned that some companies had product that simply failed to move and became gun shy about working with newbie publishers. There's a natural disinclination to order deep on new or smaller companies. Plus, there really hasn't been a sustained, break out hit from a small company. No one aside from the established publishers has come out with a successful new game or setting. Privateer comes the closest, but I've heard a lot of unhappy grumblings about their main setting book.

I think that within 18 months we'll see a new d20 company release a setting or game that takes off, and the distributors will be a little more willing to delve into the smaller end of the market. Companies that are ready to make the step up will be in a good position to capitalize on that opportunity. OTOH, I think one or two of the acknowledged "big boys" will drop out of d20.

I don't think non-d20 games will see an upsurge in sales, aside from established games that present new editions. If anything, I think d20 has taken a chunk out of the non-d20 population of gamers. In the old days, the D&D rules were so messed up that companies could compete in terms of mechanics and setting. That's no longer the case, especially as d20 companies present new settings and branch out to different genres. I think that, in 5 to 10 years, d20 will pretty much be roleplaying.

The problem with established companies and d20 is that they want to apply the strategies and marketing they use for non-d20 stuff to d20. The old ways don't work - a lot of them don't work for non-d20 stuff, either. The higher level of competition in d20 punishes companies that aren't really sharp and ready to cope with the d20 environment.
 

mearls said:
Plus, there really hasn't been a sustained, break out hit from a small company. No one aside from the established publishers has come out with a successful new game or setting.

I don't think small and established are opposite ends of the same spectrum.

Little company called Malhavoc put out a sustained, break out hit called Arcana Unearthed. I reckon you've heard of them.

Unless I'm mistaken, that "established" company has "maybe three" full time employees.

Small does not equal Unknown nor does Established equal Big.
 


This'll sound mean...

I hope that Atlas is leaving the D20 market. Not becasue I don't like their stuff (I do), but I adore both Ars Magica and Feng Shui ona scale that dwarfs my like of their D20 products.

I hope they really throw themselves into those two projects like mad:)
 

Teflon Billy said:
This'll sound mean...

I hope that Atlas is leaving the D20 market. Not becasue I don't like their stuff (I do), but I adore both Ars Magica and Feng Shui ona scale that dwarfs my like of their D20 products.

I hope they really throw themselves into those two projects like mad:)


Not mean, and I do hope they excel with the other two games cause that are damn good games. I just want that quality in my d20 products as well. :D
 

Crothian said:
Not mean, and I do hope they excel with the other two games cause that are damn good games. I just want that quality in my d20 products as well. :D

I agree that Feng Shui is a damn good game, but I think it's a bit harsh to suggest that Atlas' d20 products weren't. They published some very useful and interesting books -- Dynasties & Demagogues, Nyambe, En Route I & II, Seven Cities to name a few. It's a shame they've decided to stop publishing d20 stuff as they were pretty good at it!

Cheers


Richard
 

It's pretty much just what happened with the infamous internet business bubble. Only so many people can convince themselves they need that many products and servies before they start noticing the dust gather on'em. Then, they just focus on what is least dusty.
 

I think it is a good thing that publishers are dropping out of the d20 market. It is too oversaturated and entirely too difficult to know what to buy. They have flooded the market with sourcebooks, yet provided no adventures to USE the sourcebooks.

How much better would the market have been if the d20 publishers had concentrated on 4 big books per year, but provided 8-12 adventurers that utilized those products!?

Adventures can drive sales for larger books. Players who enjoyed a great adventure may want to buy the larger book because the adventure was cool!

Now, we have a flood of products, but there is no way to use a lot of them because weekend warrior GMs do not have the time to create adventures and use non-WOTC source material.

New sourcebooks are fine and dandy, but they will never sell well unless they are supported beyond a fire and forget attitude. Maybe the big publishers will realize this now that WOTC is getting back into adventures.

For example, Green Ronin's Blue Rose setting really needs a few support adventures. You cannot create a setting targeted at the ladies and not give them any idea of how to run the game. Or the Book of Iron Might....how cool would it be to have a short adventure using some of that stuff. That way, a GM can use the darn book without having to read it cover to cover and master it and still provide a game on the weekend!

IMO, the third party d20 market has failed new GMs and failed to help grow the hooby in their mad dash to grab profit. If they had taken some time to help grow the pie, then more money would be there.
 

talien said:
It's good if you believe that only the "good quality" publishers survive.

Well, a quick glance around confirms that this isn't true, as much as we'd like it to be. There are companies that produced quality material and got nowhere and companies that produced endless drek that are still publishing.
 

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