d20 Companies: Less = More Purchases?

[Ranger REG]

I think the biggest error was the failure to delay and update The Penumbra Fantasy Bestiary for 3.5. I think they lost a lot of sales for what otherwise was a smash product.

Hmm. Did that product released before or after 3.5e (July 2003)?

 

[Bagpuss]

Strange I wouldn't call Seven Strongholds or Backdrops, ugly and both are certainly more useful books to me as a DM then a lot of the really pretty stuff from other publishers I've bought.

I've been looking to pick up Seven Cities and other Atlas sourcebooks but they just arn't in the shops.

 

[I'm A Banana]

The Industry Standard is WotC. They realized that people shell out for hardcover, glossy, full art extravaganzas. Many third parties simply *can't* do that. They don't have the budget. This results in a pretty big gap....when people have the option of buying "Black and White Softcover #121" or buying "EXTRAVAGANZA!!!", the choice only boils down to what's in it. Most people go for extravaganza....these books should be as fun to read and page through as they are to use in the game (part of the reason monster books are still bonus).

The 3.5 break hit a lot of companies hard. I think those who survive the storm are those who have the quality (like Green Ronin) or those who have the chutzpah (like Mongoose) to endure the break and come out better for it.

In addition, I think pdf's are the wave of the future. Though I admit that might be optimistic, it's run by people with day jobs who have good ideas for the most part, and who make products out of those good ideas.

 

[Psion]

Well, Atlas has always had ugly books.

I thought that Occult Lore was one of the best laid out D20 products of last year.

I do think some Atlas products go a little crazy with the whitespace and font size.

 

[philreed]

In addition, I think pdf's are the wave of the future. Though I admit that might be optimistic, it's run by people with day jobs who have good ideas for the most part, and who make products out of those good ideas.

Running Ronin Arts is my day job. And we throw in the occasional PDF with lots of color art. Take a look at Treasures of Freeport, 101 Mundane Treasures, or The Mechanical Woodsman to see lots of color art.

I agree, though. PDFs are going to be an important part of the future of RPGs.

 

[talien]

In another thread, about the best companies, it was noted that several were leaving the d20 field for greener pastures. With that in mind, is it a good thing?

I personally see it as a kinda shoulder shrug thing. I really don't think that having all that competition ever really did anything to make products overall better. Now I know I'll sound like a rude person or highly opinionated, but hey, I've always thought that the old art and high price tag was Atlas' downfall. Very few of my friends were willing to sink $30 bones into a 160 page hardcover with bad art. On the other end of the scale, I don't see this effecting companies that are primary PDF at all.

Other opinions?

It's good if you believe that only the "good quality" publishers survive. This is different from "only the strong survive."

MonkeyGod Enterprises (MGE) learned the hard way about a lot of things. For one, they were caught off guard by what was a d20 bubble. Their early modules sold very well but by the time I started writing for them (I'm seeing a trend here) a 5,000 module print run was way too much. They cut it back to 1,500 but still lost money on Tsar Rising.

Also, MGE was willing to consider just about any pitch. In my opinion, they should have latched on to dependable authors like Mouseferatu and dropped a lot of other writers. And I say that realizing that I might have been one of the writers dropped. Mouseferatu is a proven talent who delivers quality product and has actual experience in the industry. A lot of time was wasted dealing with new authors who didn't follow through on projects. I really believe they were such nice guys that it hurt them.

MGE also didn't fully appreciate how distribution channels work. They got burned multiple times with various distributors that by now are legendary. By the time MGE made a deal to get their books into bookstores, the window to sell enough books to make a profit had passed.

And then there's the advertising. MGE really wasn't a strong Internet presence and only popped up in Dragon magazine near the end. MGE was that company you never heard of.

I believe MGE made mistakes, but if they had survived another year they could have been great. When the feeding frenzy ended, the dependable people were still around and I think MGE had a core team that could actually produce quality product. Too little, too late though.

Is it good that MGE is getting out of the RPG industry? I don't think so. They treated new writers exceptionally well (to their detriment, I'm afraid) and paid on time. Having been burned a few times myself since then, I understand just how precious that is.

Ironically, MGE may actually be the new face of a lot of companies. RPGs are a risky business, so having an investment in multiple game channels (board, miniatures, etc.) like Privateer Press may well become a necessity. If that's the case, we may see more hybrid companies like Face2Face Games/MGE.

MGE had the will, just not the way. They assure me that they want to get back into RPGs, but they simply can't bet it all on the industry when boardgames are more stable and lucrative.

 

[talien]

Also many early products were rushed...

I'm hearing this a lot...

Yep, early products were rushed. And they sold like hotcakes and made lots of companies enough money to give them unrealistic expectations about what was to come.

In other words, the early days of d20 publishing rewarded whoever got published first. I can't believe I missed that bubble.

 

[Krug]

Well there's a lot of new publishers in the PDF market with bold, interesting ideas...

 

[jgbrowning]

In another thread, about the best companies, it was noted that several were leaving the d20 field for greener pastures. With that in mind, is it a good thing?

To be honest, I don't know. Not much of an answer, but best I've got.

joe b.

 

[johnsemlak]

Hmm. Did that product [Penumbra Fantasy Bestiary] released before or after 3.5e (July 2003)?

Fantasy Bestiary was a 3.0 product. IIRC it was released just before July 2003.