d20 Hatred near you?

[Henry]

YEEE-OW! Talk about necromancy! Diablo, raising the Pong unit ain't enough, you cast Raise Thread, too? You don't play around, do you?

Its not only popular, its completely mainstream. I dont get funny looks when I ask about it, I get intelligent conversation. Anyone who thinks fantasy gaming isnt mainstream has not been in my corporate job. I work at a huge corporation, and ALL of the managers used to play Everquest, and are currently playing on a RP server on World of Warcraft. I mean seriously.

I am the demographic. And so are you.

I share these observations, myself (except for the number of people I work with - maybe three have heard of D&D positively, or used to play, but none have the attitude that it is vile or dangerous).

Its not that unusual for number cruncher players to see diablerie as the equivilant to a level up. it is like a free background point after all.

Every time I mention diablerie, I have at least one person to deny that they are a different expression of the concept of levels. However, look at it from this perspective:

• it's in the rules
• there are concrete results from diablerie, should it occur
• it's a noticeable mechanical difference between different generations of vampires; a vampire will never be as physically powerful as a vampire of a lesser generation

If I put two vampires of equal "dots" side-by-side, the one with closer generation to Caine will be the stronger one. (Temporal power notwithstanding - same could be said of a Commoner King versus a low-caste fighter in D&D.)

It may not have the same importance as a D&D levelling up, and a character can get along perfectly fine without committing this crime against his kind, but it is there, and has noticeable game effects.

Same thing with Span in continuum - you choose Span according to the scope of game you want to play, and your group can stay in that Span capability happily for years of gaming, but there's no denying that a Span Three is not only your boss, but light-years ahead of you in range and capability. A Span One can make you miss your plane ride -- a Span Two or three can make you miss your BIRTH.

 

[The Grumpy Celt]

When I first saw this thread, I thought it was about a sourcebook or manual titled “Hate.”

That said, there is enough snobbishness to go around among gamers, with a significant portion of fans of one system not satisfied with like their system. They seem to feel some compulsion to piss on other systems and the people who use those other systems.

But as sociological phenomena, that is not unique to gamers.

 

[Psion]

Rassin' frassin' thread necromancy...

 

[moritheil]

At the same time I think there are a number of people who are 'non-d20' haters. These are the people who have been so swept up in the d20 system that they refuse to play anything other than that at this point.

I like d20. I like it a lot. It is good for the industry where you can learn one system and have a pretty good idea that you have learned numerous systems but it does bother me that lots of systems are moving towards d20 (yes, I know its for the money - I don't blame them) but part of me thinks it has stiffled some creativity as people are forcing their systems into a d20 mold when they could use a system that could better fit their game.

Right; nothing is perfect. On the one hand, D20 OA butchered L5R. On the other hand, do I really have the patience to sit around and explain the L5R mechanics to 10 people or so? No, not really. And as such, D20 is useful.

Standards are useful merely for the fact that they are standards. If there was a system based on d12s, or d100s, and it was universal, I guarantee you that much of the associated love and hate would be transferred to it.

 

[diaglo]

Rassin' frassin' thread necromancy...

better than starting a new one.

it was time in the schedule to revisit the hat.

 

[Ourph]

I don't hate d20, I just don't want to date it anymore.

 

[diaglo]

since 1edADnD is getting so much attention. might as well give equal time to the hat of d02.

 

[diaglo]

Opinions?

i wear my hat of d02 on my sleeve. i tell everyone about it.

just like those who hate 1ed or 2ed.

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

This is the internet. I'm sure there are message boards where you can find hateful posts about iced tea. Don't worry about it.

Lawdy...that's funny!

It's also pretty much true. I'm a huge fan of d20, and really don't give a pair of fetid dingo's kidneys whether anyone else likes it or not. Are there things about it I'd tweak if given the opportunity? Sure! But to just close my mind to something is inconceivable to me, though I see it every day. I know a guy who's group refuses to play 3.x D&D because the options are "too confusing".

 

[Gundark]

The Iron Kingdoms boards have more than their fair share of d20 haters....the topic comes up every now and then..."What systems could I convert the IK over to?" ....I get really irritated when I see complaining about d20 on d20 messegaboards......at least I do on the IK messageboards