d20 Hatred near you?

[Nightchilde-2]

d20 haters might be worried about a d20 monopoly occurring. D&D was always huge but that was previously limited to fantasy RPGs. Now d20, a satilite of D&D, opens the core d20 reference (3E D&D) to ALL genres and settings.

d20 haters might not be saying that d20 isn't capable of serving a non-d20 campaign well (CoC, for example), but they might be saying that it's hedging out unique non-d20 systems. That the OGL is a free and easy alternative to creating a unique system that opens wonderful new vistas to the RPG market.

Also, d20 haters probably like the non-d20 systems they are using in preference to a d20 alternative and are worried about the extinction of their non-d20 game. Some people might say: "So what, keep playing your out-of-print editions of such-and-such a game. You don't *have* to up date to the new d20 version that more gamers are now playing". If they did this, however, it would isolate them from the wider gaming community that are playing the d20 version.

In a lot of cases the unique non-d20 game is including d20 rules in its publicaitons. I guess they are worried that, eventually, the game will become completely d20 and that the original system, which they prefer better, will cease to exist.

In the end it's all about economics, and if their beloved game changes to d20 to survive then they have to decide whether this is *better that nothing* or isolate themselves from the gaming community and just play their out-of-print game.

While I'm not a d20 hater, you've pretty much summed up my worries/viewpoints quite nicely. Thank you.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

d20 haters might be worried about a d20 monopoly occurring. D&D was always huge but that was previously limited to fantasy RPGs. Now d20, a satilite of D&D, opens the core d20 reference (3E D&D) to ALL genres and settings.

d20 haters might not be saying that d20 isn't capable of serving a non-d20 campaign well (CoC, for example), but they might be saying that it's hedging out unique non-d20 systems. That the OGL is a free and easy alternative to creating a unique system that opens wonderful new vistas to the RPG market.

Also, d20 haters probably like the non-d20 systems they are using in preference to a d20 alternative and are worried about the extinction of their non-d20 game. Some people might say: "So what, keep playing your out-of-print editions of such-and-such a game. You don't *have* to up date to the new d20 version that more gamers are now playing". If they did this, however, it would isolate them from the wider gaming community that are playing the d20 version.

In a lot of cases the unique non-d20 game is including d20 rules in its publicaitons. I guess they are worried that, eventually, the game will become completely d20 and that the original system, which they prefer better, will cease to exist.

In the end it's all about economics, and if their beloved game changes to d20 to survive then they have to decide whether this is *better that nothing* or isolate themselves from the gaming community and just play their out-of-print game.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

 

[diaglo]

But what do I know? Heck, I'm still trying to explain to my kids that we didn't have Tivo or even VCRs when I was growing up...my daughter thinks I'm outright lying when I tell her we didn't have a color TV until I was older than she is now.

i still have my Telstar Pong game somewhere around. i haven't played it in years. but i'm sure if i hooked it up. it would still run just fine.

whereas the "newer" fangled garbage video games stop working after the warranty expires.

 

[barsoomcore]

i still have my Telstar Pong game somewhere around.

I never imagined you didn't.

 

[Seeten]

I bought my families first VCR when I was 16, in 1988. Seems like ages ago now. My kids literally dont believe there was life before VCR's. We have 4 computers in the house. Its insane.

You know, I totally agree that I run the country. It seems every product, especially MMORPG, that comes out, is catered to me. They make concessions for me. They make systems for me. They use pricepoints designed for me. I am the demographic they want, and they market to MY taste. I am not a product of market forces, I, and those like me, shape it.

Further, I force this to happen by flashing my money at everything I want more of. I will go see every Comic Book movie, because I WANT MORE OF THEM. I saw the D&D movie not because I thought it would be good, but because I support the idea of it.

We are in a great position. When I go into Chapters, and I say, why arent you carrying "Races of Eberron" I am not ridiculed, I am catered to. These things are vastly underrated. When I was growing up, Coles(local bookstore) carried like 6 fantasy books, and LOTR. Chapters has walls and walls of it. Its not only popular, its completely mainstream. I dont get funny looks when I ask about it, I get intelligent conversation. Anyone who thinks fantasy gaming isnt mainstream has not been in my corporate job. I work at a huge corporation, and ALL of the managers used to play Everquest, and are currently playing on a RP server on World of Warcraft. I mean seriously.

I am the demographic. And so are you.

 

[JoeGKushner]

The d20 haters are either in the minority or are stupid and continue buying the material despite a burning hatred which is cool cause it insures that I'll see more d20 books.

 

[frankthedm]

I respectfully disagree. I can't speak for Continuum, as I haven't played that but V:tM doesn't have levels.

"Levels" in d20, imo, are the point when a character has gained enough experience and have improved their skills. When "leveling" happens, it usually includes automatic increases in character abilities, even if those abilities were not used or are not emphasized by the character.

If a vampire commits diablerie, they gain nothing from it except the potential to be more powerful. However, at the point that they diablerize another vampire, they gain the blood but nothing else.

Its not that unusual for number cruncher players to see diablerie as the equivilant to a level up. it is like a free background point after all.

 

[fredramsey]

Snagged for sig.

This is the internet. I'm sure there are message boards where you can find hateful posts about iced tea. Don't worry about it.

 

[focallength]

My hate of d02 know no limit.

Read this thread, but make sure you aren't drinking anything while you do.

My hate of d02 know no limit.
It fails in just about every aspect of a game,and it is more of a rule playign game than role playing game.

Frist off it is way to liniar.You just get better in everyway.THere is no way in avoiding it.I mena no mater what you are, you have have hit points and levels.

It is over comlicated,and simplist at the same time. IT is harder to hit a mmman in plate armor.And hammers and swords tear chaim mail the same way. Then you have the detail of when you can atack,and what range weapons have,and how far you can move.

Classes, are jokes. really.From how hits points.skill points,and bonus powers are moved about. In the end in boils down to this.

levle systems do not work.They may work on paper, but a level 12 fighter or even mag doesn't need to fear having a sword swung at them, or even getting stabed. Also with the way hit points work, your either fighting as if nothing happened or are out cold.Nothing in the middle.

the flaw of rolling a d20 is also that the best fighter in the word, taking up his most magical sword, misses 5% of the time.ALso so all fighters are just as good with all weapons they use.We all know that training with hand to hand weapons will make you great with a bow.Also if your good with guns, you must know how to use a sword.


In the end, d20 is too many rules, and not enough rules at the same time.Has too many strick rules, while leaving many feild wide open with no reason. I am ranting here,and know this dosen't make much sense to many people.BUt in the end I would like to see one come with a good reason d20 is a good system.

Ah yes the byproduct of public education( no offense I have a public education...and a private one) How does training with hand to hand weapons make you great with a bow? I mean I was into archery for 5+years so by this logic I should be able to pick up a sword and lay holy waste to anything I fancy.

"...and know this dosen't make much sense to many people..."
now this I agree with.

and why wouldnt a level 12 fighter or mag (think he or she ment mage) not fear having a sword swung at them or being stabbed? I know Ive had 12th level characters (come to think of it all 12th level characters Ive had) still got scared when somone or something swung a sword at them.

I would love to find the author and bring him here for a little clarification

 

[focallength]

oh and the respones that came from this post are classic.