d20 Hatred near you?

[The Gryphon]

I respectfully disagree. I can't speak for Continuum, as I haven't played that but V:tM doesn't have levels.

"Levels" in d20, imo, are the point when a character has gained enough experience and have improved their skills. When "leveling" happens, it usually includes automatic increases in character abilities, even if those abilities were not used or are not emphasized by the character.

If a vampire commits diablerie, they gain nothing from it except the potential to be more powerful. However, at the point that they diablerize another vampire, they gain the blood but nothing else.

So, imo, at least one of those games mentioned doesn't have "levels" in the sense that d20 has levels.

Good discussion!

edg

Maybe not in the same sense, but every game system has "levels", unless your character stays exactly as it was after initial character generation.

Whether they be direct class levels, a point buy system of advancing skills or powers, gaining blood points, or receiving access to new equipment. Different systems may not have the same leveling proceedure, but they all "level" in some way or another.

Some leveling is just not as obvious as others

 

[ScottDM]

Actually I see WotC like the Nintendo NES and the othe systems like the Sega Master System. Nintendo was an inferior product but they let ANYONE make games for it even if those games were crap pushed out just to stock up the shelves.

Was that a jab at Mongoose and Fast Forward? Man I've got shelves of that crap ay my shop. Especially the quinticential books to half-asses. That seemed to turn alot of people away from D20. I have seen the people who will not play D20 because they make everything D20 now.....

D&D is a decent system, without getting bogged down in the "reality" of the game. I hate when people complain that they don't like D20 because it isn't Realistic. If I wanted scientific "reality" I would play the Hero system, because we all want plausible dragons...........

I think I have seen at least once, every type of person previously posted about (types 1-6). I play other systems, I prefer "nitch" systems to universal systems. I play white wolf on occasion. I haven't played too many other variants of the D20 system, not for lack of trying, but my group isn't that open minded. They are currently on a Hero system kick, so I don't think I'll be doing much playing lately.

 

[francisca]

Yes that was the Rules Cyclopedia, which was a revival of D&D....there was a long span of time where no Dungeons & Dragons (non advanced) was published.

I think you are mistaken. Check out this link and look at the release dates. Basic/Expert/etc... D&D was in pretty much continual production from the Dr. Holmes Set in 1979 up until the early 90's.

In addition, in 1980, when you bought the Moldvay Basic set, you got a catalog which still listed the reprints of the 1974 white box.

 

[Morrus]

I mean do you guys experience the huge d20 hatred that seems to be out there? Waiting to attack?

Well, we don't get much of that here. But then this is a d20 fan site - people who don't like d20 are very unlikely to be here in the first place!

 

[evildmguy]

Maybe not in the same sense, but every game system has "levels", unless your character stays exactly as it was after initial character generation.

Whether they be direct class levels, a point buy system of advancing skills or powers, gaining blood points, or receiving access to new equipment. Different systems may not have the same leveling proceedure, but they all "level" in some way or another.

Some leveling is just not as obvious as others

I know this is being nit picky, but the semantics are very important here. Part of the d20 system is levels. Part of those levels is an increase in BAB, hit points, saves, skill points and perhaps a few other things. Therefore, if I say, "my cleric advanced a level", that has a specific meaning in d20 that isn't there for other games.

I think what you are referring to is "advancement" or "character improvement" and this can be handled in any number of ways in a system, many of which you list above. What I am saying is that in d20, that is called "leveling up" and means a specific thing. Other systems, though, wouldn't call it that. In fact, the terms "levels" and "leveling up" might have no meaning in another system. Duh but I am trying to be specific here.

That's all I am saying! Thanks for the reply! Good discussion!

Have a good one!

edg

 

[buzz]

6. People who think that a system which is obviously tailored for a very specific kind of gaming experience should not be presented as a universal gaming system.

Granted, these people are generally making this up, as d20 has never been presented by WotC as a "generic" or "universal" system. This is one of the Great Gaming Forum Myths(tm) often touted by the d20-bashing crowd.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

Granted, these people are generally making this up, as d20 has never been presented by WotC as a "generic" or "universal" system. This is one of the Great Gaming Forum Myths(tm) often touted by the d20-bashing crowd.

Agreed... d20 and Storyteller are alike in that they aren't "generic" but are easily adaptable to various settings.

 

[evildmguy]

Granted, these people are generally making this up, as d20 has never been presented by WotC as a "generic" or "universal" system. This is one of the Great Gaming Forum Myths(tm) often touted by the d20-bashing crowd.

Could you expand on this for me? I am not sure I buy that completely, what with d20 Modern and soon d20 Future. I do think that DND is "d20 Fantasy" and doubt that WotC will release anything called d20 Fantasy because they have DND.

I am saying that I do see WotC calling d20 a generic system, especially through the SRD, and I am curious as to what you think.

btw, I am not placing any "burden of proof" on you or anything. I was caught off guard by your statement and am curious about it. So, that's why I asked. No flame or troll intended.

Thanks! Good discussion!

edg

 

[evildmguy]

Agreed... d20 and Storyteller are alike in that they aren't "generic" but are easily adaptable to various settings.

Oh, okay, I can see that. I am curious if WotC would agree or if they do intend them to be generic for their specific genre but I think I get that.

Thanks! Good discussion!

edg

 

[Arnwyn]

Granted, these people are generally making this up, as d20 has never been presented by WotC as a "generic" or "universal" system. This is one of the Great Gaming Forum Myths(tm) often touted by the d20-bashing crowd.

Oh? Regardless if WotC is presenting it as a "universal" system or not, the fact that other publishers are trying to do just such a thing certainly does not make it a "myth".

(And, as another poster noted, WotC's d20 Modern and d20 Future also seems to go away from the "myth" suggestion.)