d20 Hatred near you?

[Von Ether]

Just about every other gaming company has dabbled it's feet in the d20/OGL water at some time, including those with their own well-known house systems. White Wolf's got it's Sword & Sorcery label

Here is a flip side of the equation, how many "non-d20 haters" have become fans of other game companies since d20?

I remember when a lot of DnDers thought White Wolf was "dumb" because they didn't like the system or the settings (I mean monsters are to be hunted, not used as metphors or as angsty superheroes *cough* Hellboy *cough*.)

Now a lot of guys swear by SSS. In fact, I get a repeated joy when I meet a SSS fan who still hasn't realized that their favorite company is *gasp* White Wolf in disguise. The look on their face is priceless.

 

[d4]

For example, I loved the show Firefly. One of the episodes (Out of Gas) dealt with how the captain was wounded pretty bad and was struggling to fix the ship so he would live. That was a great and dramatic episode and I think it is a good example of what I would like to see my RPG do for me.

d20 cannot do that. DND cannot do that. d20 Modern can't do that! Anything dealing with hit points, that I have seen, cannot do that. I have yet to see a system that accounts for levels of damage within a hit point system. Now, d20 or DND, might be able to do that if it is "patched" but the core rules cannot do it. Is this bad?

what do you mean by "can't"? you concede that with a "patch" or house rule (that would take all of 5 minutes to whip up), the effect you desire can easily be done. so why would you say it "can't" be done?

secondly, the Wounds/Vitality system used in Star Wars d20, Spycraft, and presented for D&D in Unearthed Arcana gives penalties for injuries. i know there are other third party d20 add-ons and systems that give injury penalties as well.

d20 has already done it. D&D and d20 Modern could also do it with a small amount of work (or buying the right supplement). i think saying it "can't" be done is a bit strong and frankly wrong.

 

[SSquirrel]

what do you mean by "can't"? you concede that with a "patch" or house rule (that would take all of 5 minutes to whip up), the effect you desire can easily be done. so why would you say it "can't" be done?

secondly, the Wounds/Vitality system used in Star Wars d20, Spycraft, and presented for D&D in Unearthed Arcana gives penalties for injuries. i know there are other third party d20 add-ons and systems that give injury penalties as well.

d20 has already done it. D&D and d20 Modern could also do it with a small amount of work (or buying the right supplement). i think saying it "can't" be done is a bit strong and frankly wrong.

Besides aren't there fatigue rules and such that are optional in either the PHB or DMG? Heck you could always make a small house rule that any successful critical hit adds 1 point of bleeding per round until patched up. Each additional crit adds another point of bleeding. So 2 crits in a row and you're bleeding 2/round.

Hagen

 

[d4]

Besides aren't there fatigue rules and such that are optional in either the PHB or DMG? Heck you could always make a small house rule that any successful critical hit adds 1 point of bleeding per round until patched up. Each additional crit adds another point of bleeding. So 2 crits in a row and you're bleeding 2/round.

actually, i was thinking of something as simple as:

reduced to 50% total hp: -2 on all skill and attribute checks
reduced to 25% total hp: -4 on all skill and attribute checks

if you want to be really mean, have more "injury levels", or apply the penalty to attacks, damage, and saves as well.

it took me a lot less than 5 minutes to come up with that.

 

[SSquirrel]

Hey edg your name says you're in Iowa? Where? I live near Iowa City. Always looking for other games to play in. Drop me a line.

hagen_kirk at yahoo.com

Hagen

 

[Liquidsabre]

As I have said before in other threads, the d20 system is flexible enough and possesses the variety to allow virtually any concept to see mechanical form in the rules and would be fairly well represented and simple. IME the only time others tote that something isn't possible are either lazy or simply don't know enough of the system to figure it out. The shear utility of being able to create new special abilities/magic/etc. let alone variant rules (see Unearthed Arcana for great examples) that would fit in within the d20 system make complaints more than a little weak in most cases.

I'm sure if any nay-sayers wanted to they could lay out a concept and I'm sure a mechanicsm could be found/devised within the d20 system to fairly accurately represent it.

The only argument that can seriously be made is Style of Play. The level-based system in d20 is a heroic/epic style of play where a character starts on the bottom of the heap and quickly rises to the top (hobbit-to-hero or farmer-to-king so to speak). And some folk prefer not to play this sort of style. World of Darkness games for example have characters begin play at a moderate power level and gain significant power at a slower pace, so a WoD character's power level remains much more static than your typical d20 character.

So don't step up with arguments on mechanics, representation ,and conceptual problems, as these arguments can't help but be weak. It's a matter of style, and that's okay.

 

[Gadodel]

I have not read the entire thread.

I really enjoy the D20 System. I am currently adopting a D20 Point/Buy method of character creation and improvement. BESM D20 and Mutants & Masterminds has influenced me greatly in this regard.

What D20 lacks is one big book to run a Multi Genre campaign.

 

[swrushing]

For example, I loved the show Firefly. One of the episodes (Out of Gas) dealt with how the captain was wounded pretty bad and was struggling to fix the ship so he would live. That was a great and dramatic episode and I think it is a good example of what I would like to see my RPG do for me.

d20 cannot do that. DND cannot do that. d20 Modern can't do that! Anything dealing with hit points, that I have seen, cannot do that. I have yet to see a system that accounts for levels of damage within a hit point system. Now, d20 or DND, might be able to do that if it is "patched" but the core rules cannot do it. Is this bad? Nope. Not at all. I am merely saying that, for me, I have now found something that DND can't do but it is something that I want the possibility of in my games. So, I don't use it anymore.
edg

Quick question... which system have you found you run out of the box that does that episode/scene to your liking without a house rule or patch to make it work?

I am always looking for systems to use or steal from, and i too loved that ep of firefly, so... c'mon, which system do you use to get that scene right and ready out of the box?

BTW, FWIW, i also do not like hit points or aven the Wp/VP for scifi or any gunplay type of genre. In my current stargate game, i dropped the wp/vp hit point system they used for a damage save, and with my damage save, it could very much happen to give me that scene. A bad hit scores a TKO (taking the cap'n out for a scene, even if previously uninjured) and when he wakes up he is at penalties to actions and reduced to half actions for a long while (until he heals.) Obviously, my damage save, while a rather obvious and simple adaptation from the one in MnM, is a house rule, it captures the feel i want.

Then again, in my history of gaming, i have never ever found a system that did what i wanted and needed no house rules to suit my game to my liking. Long ago i figured the manufacturers did not know my game notion, my PCs, me or my players and so they would never be able to package for mass market a game that needed no tweaking or patching or house ruling to meet my game's needs as well as i wanted. i cannot think of any game that survived a singler session without me applying a patch or house rule... most did not make it thru chargen.

But seriously, what system did that scene for you right, right out of the box?

 

[SSquirrel]

I have not read the entire thread.

I really enjoy the D20 System. I am currently adopting a D20 Point/Buy method of character creation and improvement. BESM D20 and Mutants & Masterminds has influenced me greatly in this regard.

What D20 lacks is one big book to run a Multi Genre campaign.

Well technically BESM could probably handle multi genre pretty decently. I know several people on ENWorld are wanting to use it to handle a Final Fantasy game. Personally I've always been a big RIFTS fan. I know the problem with the ever icreasing power scale, but the world is very interesting to me and I like seeing what has been done with it all. Plus, some of the art over the years has been just wonderful. Then again lots of it was crap.

There may be one area in my upcoming AU campaign that has people from damn near everywhere as they fall thru an open portal into the world in a 5 minute span each day. Many days nothing would come thru, but you could have someone from say Star Wars have a hyperspace accident and run into a star or black hole. Instead of dying their ship is destroyed and they end up in AU in the temple with the portal wondering where they are. Not sure if I'll actually go thru with this or not, but I might. AU already has things from many different worlds sprinkled around so it wouldn't be too outlandish.

Of course, I think crossing Anime, Mecha, Star Wars, D&D, CoC, WarCraft, whatever and toss in the 4 Color to Fantasy rules for super powers as well as maybe mutation rules from the Omega World mini game from Polyhedron...and you'd have a really WEIRD world heh. That super strength would be all well and good until Cthulhu blew your mind away by waving hello.

Hagen

 

[Rabelais]

d02 is Teh suk!

That post made my eyes bleed... very funny though.