D&D 4E d20 Modern 4E - I want it!

I think set teirs of play resets are a great idea
Heroic 1-10
Paragon 1-10
Epic 1-10

Buffy started Paragon 1, zander and willow Heroic 1...

I also think mostly classless would work, you have x pergrassion chart that everyone shares, and everyone can take abilities from, BUT if you want a diffrent type of feel take a feat or two to dabble in exotic sources (magic, psionics)

Equipment like guns and cars and anything else we have can be handeled as a magic item from d&D flame thrower has a close blast, AK 47 has a cover fire, granade has a blast

the setting is hard though...I want to play Rainbow six or the Ateam, but want to let you run Buffy or Charmed.
 

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I want to play Rainbow six or the Ateam, but want to let you run Buffy or Charmed.

ok now I have a funny image in my head of BA looking at Angle and saying "I'm not letting no white lighter telaport me...we take a plane like normal people" well Jack oneil zats him in the back saying "Can we get going now?" :angel:

ok well it was funny in my mind...:lol:
 

Ranger REG

Explorer
ok now I have a funny image in my head of BA looking at Angle and saying "I'm not letting no white lighter telaport me...we take a plane like normal people" well Jack oneil zats him in the back saying "Can we get going now?" :angel:

ok well it was funny in my mind...:lol:
It is funny, when you consider that [Kurt] Angle is a WWE wrestler who can probably tap BA into submission.
 

Mokona

First Post
You were supposed to take a level or two in a class and then multiclass between one or two classes plus your original class. This should have been explained in the book, but the explanation appears in the Modern Player's Companion (The Game Mechanics)
Being forced into multiclassing using the d20 System is bad design. Additionally, quotes from The Game Mechanics constitute one designer's opinion and not official policy. Perhaps the reason this "rule" never appears in a Wizards of the Coast book is because there wasn't universal agreement in R&D.

The six attributes lack flavor as character classes. Spycraft had the right idea. If you posit that the three physical attribute classes make for fun combat encounters and the three others make for fun skill challenges then you only need nine Modern 4th Edition classes. Strong/Smart, Tough/Wise, Fast/Charisma, Strong/Wise, Tough/Charisma, Fast/Smart, Strong/Charisma, Tough/Smart, and Fast/Wise.

Strong/Smart = Tactician
Tough/Wise = Survivalist
Tough/Charisma = Cleric
Strong/Charisma = Warlord
Strong/Wise = Barbarian
Tough/Smart = Batman
Fast/Smart = Swordsman
Fast/Wise = Monk
Fast/Charisma = Rogue

This kind of alignment of features (one combat + one non-combat) in classes allows for more grokkable classes and simplifies the character-adventure design spectrum. Dungeons & Dragons already has eight classes in the core rules so nine choices is not too many.
 


DandD

First Post
Being forced into multiclassing using the d20 System is bad design. Additionally, quotes from The Game Mechanics constitute one designer's opinion and not official policy. Perhaps the reason this "rule" never appears in a Wizards of the Coast book is because there wasn't universal agreement in R&D.

The six attributes lack flavor as character classes. Spycraft had the right idea. If you posit that the three physical attribute classes make for fun combat encounters and the three others make for fun skill challenges then you only need nine Modern 4th Edition classes. Strong/Smart, Tough/Wise, Fast/Charisma, Strong/Wise, Tough/Charisma, Fast/Smart, Strong/Charisma, Tough/Smart, and Fast/Wise.

Strong/Smart = Tactician
Tough/Wise = Survivalist
Tough/Charisma = Cleric
Strong/Charisma = Warlord
Strong/Wise = Barbarian
Tough/Smart = Batman
Fast/Smart = Swordsman
Fast/Wise = Monk
Fast/Charisma = Rogue

This kind of alignment of features (one combat + one non-combat) in classes allows for more grokkable classes and simplifies the character-adventure design spectrum. Dungeons & Dragons already has eight classes in the core rules so nine choices is not too many.
That sounds very good. I do hope that they'll try this out.
 

Greg K

Legend
Additionally, quotes from The Game Mechanics constitute one designer's opinion and not official policy. Perhaps the reason this "rule" never appears in a Wizards of the Coast book is because there wasn't universal agreement in R&D

Except that it is the explanation of the d20M approach to classes.

From "Classes and Basics: Countdown to Modern"

"The idea was to create a system that was capable of handling characters with very few real skills (first level characters), as well as providing a flexible system of progression that allows characters to develop in a virtually unlimited number of directions. The great example Chris gave was Buffy the Vampire Slayer -- the main characters started as "ordinary" high school students, but gained and developed new skills, talents, and abilities as the story progressed.

Bill pointed out that the Basic Class system will cross every modern genre. And, when you get a look at the rules, you'll see why. It's almost unbelievable how well this core game mechanic lends itself to doing just about anything. When I asked how the system was developed, Bill said that he wanted to really take advantage of the versatility of the d20 System. The rules for d20 Modern were arrived at very organically. Chris added that he thought the system was "brilliant."

He's right. When you think about it, any character you have can essentially be broken down to an emphasis on a particular ability (or combination). My wizard is all about Intelligence, and my old thief put all of his ability score bonuses into Dexterity. It really makes sense to build a character creation system based on those fundamentals. The interesting bit is that because the Basic Classes are so pure, character concepts can be taken in vastly different directions. You could want a soldier type who's an expert with firearms -- that's a Fast Hero. Your pal might want his soldier type to be able to take a beating and keep going -- that'll be a Tough Hero.

That's what's really cool about the d20 Modern system -- the rules are all about what your characters can do, not what they can't. Your character concept will shape your PC more than anything, and the choices you make when assigning class levels will just help to reinforce what you're trying to do.

You want a soldier who's really good with guns and can take a couple hits? Well, then you're looking at multiclassing. (Here comes a good bit.)

In d20 Modern, there's no penalty for multiclassing. In fact, it's highly encouraged. Here's a quote from the book:

'The classes in d20 Modern represent the wide range of skills and knowledge that people in the modern world have access to. Each class level represents an area of expertise that a character trains in. Therefore, multiclassing can be done freely and without restriction.'


Chris pointed out that by 4th or 5th level, just about every character will have multiclassed at least once, or picked up an advanced class. (Advanced Classes are similar to prestige classes in that they're more focused on a particular set of skills or abilities. You'll get a look at the advanced classes in a few months -- just hang on.)"


From Advanced Classes
"Most characters are likely to dabble around with multiclassing in two or more of the basic classes. Really, that's what the system is set up for. The truly impressive thing about the d20 Modern Roleplaying Game is how it's been designed, from top to bottom, to allow maximum flexibility so you can play the character you want to play. It's all about options."


FromBehind d20 Modern
"Bill's character concept for d20 Modern was quite elegant: The game needed only six classes, each based on one of the game's six abilities (Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charima). This gave us the Strong, Fast, Tough, Smart, Dedicated, and Charismatic hero archetypes. Using these six basic classes, players could build heroic characters of all kinds, from college students to private eyes to Marines."


The six attributes lack flavor as character classes. Spycraft had the right idea.
Well, some people like that lack of flavor. I, personally, don't like the spycraft classes. I know others that feel the same way which is why we don't play Spycraft. Back to Basics might be an improvement over the Spycraft class, but I haven't checked it out since there are other aspects of Spycraft that I don't like in comparison to third party d20M supplements (e.g., Spycraft's treatment of Martial Arts in comparison to Blood and Fists).

If you posit that the three physical attribute classes make for fun combat encounters and the three others make for fun skill challenges then you only need nine Modern 4th Edition classes. Strong/Smart, Tough/Wise, Fast/Charisma, Strong/Wise, Tough/Charisma, Fast/Smart, Strong/Charisma, Tough/Smart, and Fast/Wise.

Only if you think every character needs a combat role. I personally do not. Not every character is about combat and not every person wants to run a modern game where every character, let alone any at all, are trained/experienced combatants.
 

Only if you think every character needs a combat role. I personally do not. Not every character is about combat and not every person wants to run a modern game where every character, let alone any at all, are trained/experienced combatants.
That's a general "problem" where people never will see eye to eye. Some are perfectly willing to accept that parts of the game can single out characters from contributing. A Scientist has no place in combat, and a Soldier might be useless in a negotiations and investigation scenarios.
Shadowrun is a "modern" game that exemplifies this, really - If the mage is scouting astrally, the rest of the group sits back. If the decker is hacking the Matrix, the rest of the group sits back. In combat, Rigger, Street Samurai and Mage might be very busy, but Techies and Deckers will probably sit back.

Others say that it is game with multiple players and if not every player is contributing, this lessens the game experience.
D&D 4E takes this approach towards combat - every character has a combat role. You can't escape it. You can focus on combat or on non-combat stuff with a few abilities (mostly feats/skills), but you will never be bad at combat (by class design - player competence and tactical mastery still matter, of course).

I am personally leaning toward the latter aspect, too. I want every player to be engaged, and the best way to engage him is playing his character and having him contribute to any given situation. Of course, this limits the possible characters. You can't play just a "Scientist", you will be a scientist with martial arts or tactical understanding or the ability to tinker with weapons. You can't be a dumb gunslinger, you will also have to be a faceman, or a guide.
The pure scientist and the pure soldier is an NPC. He is not the protagonist of the story told in the game. At best, he's a side-kick.
(That's in fact how it works in many movies - there is a single protagonist that can do a lot of stuff, but sometimes he has side-kicks that can help him out in certain areas. Of course, in a RPG, would you want to play the side-kick if your friend plays the protagonist?

Maybe the solution to mixing both aspects - specialised and broad characters - is to give every character the option to have such side-kicks they can role-play in situations outside their expertise. So, if I am playing the afromentioned dumb Gunslinger, I have a private eye side-kick (a friend) that I can take over when the entire group is investigating a matter. (But how does this work if someone else is already playing an investigator-type character?)
 

Plane Sailing

Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
The six attributes lack flavor as character classes. Spycraft had the right idea. If you posit that the three physical attribute classes make for fun combat encounters and the three others make for fun skill challenges then you only need nine Modern 4th Edition classes. Strong/Smart, Tough/Wise, Fast/Charisma, Strong/Wise, Tough/Charisma, Fast/Smart, Strong/Charisma, Tough/Smart, and Fast/Wise.

A nice concept.

I actually quite liked the six ability based classes in d20 modern, and I felt that they had a lot of promise as an idea. Compared to D&D I thought it was great that Smart or Charismatic characters got some useful combat related talents, for instance. There was a bit of a problem in that they took too many talents to actually get useful, sometimes!

I think something that was redesigned with 4e's eye on 'getting the maths right' could make some very options available though.
 

Nadaka

First Post
When it comes to classes. I am absolutely torn. I love the ability based classes and the flexibility that they provide. But I also like well balanced characters. And its very easy to make a combat monster with no real skills outside of combat or a smart/charismatic that can barely avoid shooting himself in the face, but who has great mastery (or even little mastery) outside of combat.

What I don't want is to see modern focus so completely on combat that everything else falls by the wayside. I would like to see it designed so that everyone equally contributes to combat (even if they do so abstractly) and everyone has some specific area outside of combat where they can contribute. This is where the ability based classes loose some of their effectiveness. I can see a role for every single ability class except one.

Charismatic = face-man
Dedicated = medic
Smart = brain/fixer
Tough = survivalist
Fast = wheel man/scout
Strong = ?

In general, the occupations class skills are used by strong to provide that out of combat role, but that may not be enough.
 

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