[d20 Modern] Let the gnashing of teeth begin!

[Voneth]

Besides, what's the "spy" genre? Seems to me that Spycraft is geared towards the James Bond spy-genre, while it would be wildly inappropriate for a Robert Ludlum spy-genre, or a John LeCarre spy-genre or something like that.

Personally, I'd like to play d20 Dark*Matter (of something close to it) with d20 Modern -- something really X-files like. Although with d20 Call of Cthulhu I'm not sure that I need d20 Modern at all, really.

With Action Dice, specialized classes and "gadget and budget" points, SC low level characters are more competnent and better equiped compared to their DND counter parts, and maybe by extension d20 Modern.

The SC book suggests using low level characters for more realistic genres, high level characters for Superspy, and their campaign world, Series Archer, has options to do some funky Necroscope stuff.

 

[Desdichado]

Yeah, that just emphasizes my point. Spycraft is truly best for something like James Bond. Sure, I like Bond as much as the next guy, but that's certainly not the only kind of modern game I'd like to play.

Therefore, to the question "why buy d20 Modern if you already have Spycraft," the answer is, because Spycraft is too narrow in focus. And I still say, why buy Spycraft (even if it is an excellent product) when I can simply get d20 Modern?

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Yeah, that just emphasizes my point. Spycraft is truly best for something like James Bond. Sure, I like Bond as much as the next guy, but that's certainly not the only kind of modern game I'd like to play.

I have not read it completely- but the spycraft weapon supplement has a lot of rules for more realistic gun combat (recoil, floating initiative, etc).

Those rules would make it less 'over-the-top', but to be honest it is not that much 'over-the-top' in the first place.

It does not take much to die in Spycraft- one critical from a gun will have a good chance of killing a player.. high or low level.

Any player that stands out in the open in a gun fight is going to watch their character become swiss cheese.

FD

 

[Psion]

Besides, what's the "spy" genre? Seems to me that Spycraft is geared towards the James Bond spy-genre, while it would be wildly inappropriate for a Robert Ludlum spy-genre, or a John LeCarre spy-genre or something like that.

By default, yes. But the Game Control chapter in the Spycraft book discussing retooling the game for grittier spy games by doing things like dropping vitality points.

 

[Desdichado]

Well, sure, there's ways to adapt Spycraft to other genres. The d20 system is flexible enough that with some minor changes it can be adapted to any genre. The changes to the system for CoC after all, were relatively minor. Still, why buy the system that's geared for a narrow focus instead of the more general one, and the one that will be supported tons more going forward?

 

[Psion]

Still, why buy the system that's geared for a narrow focus instead of the more general one, and the one that will be supported tons more going forward?

Because
a) It's better conceived from what I have seen so far. (NOT a fan of the d20 modern class scheme and NOT a fan of the fact d20 modern is using the HP variant, and definitely NOT a fan of the fact that the d20 modern HP variant makes con an uber-stat)
b) It's not as narrow as you imply. Shadowforce Archer, for example, has magic and psionics.
c) Will it be better supported? From what I am hearing, the support for d20 modern will be primarily via third party d20 publishers, and those are specific setting releases along the lines of SFA; there are no d20 modern releases in the first quarter WotC catalog.

 

[Desdichado]

Psion:
Because
a) It's better conceived from what I have seen so far. (NOT a fan of the d20 modern class scheme and NOT a fan of the fact d20 modern is using the HP variant, and definitely NOT a fan of the fact that the d20 modern HP variant makes con an uber-stat)
b) It's not as narrow as you imply. Shadowforce Archer, for example, has magic and psionics.
c) Will it be better supported? From what I am hearing, the support for d20 modern will be primarily via third party d20 publishers, and those are specific setting releases along the lines of SFA; there are no d20 modern releases in the first quarter WotC catalog.

a) I kinda like the class scheme. The idea in Spycraft of coming from a certain "department" seems ultimately less flexible. I'm undecided on the HP issue: but then again, I'm not really one of those guys that really has a problem with HP except at high level.
b) That's not what I mean. Sure, you can add magic and psionics, but you still get an almost super-heroic James Bond type of game, without muddling around in lots of other aspects.

Still, neither of these are truly concerning to me, because I'm a born tinkerer. I'll house rule away stuff I don't like. The real issue is:
c) Third party or not, it will be supported. Others will be making stuff that's compatible with d20 Modern. Can the same thing be said for Spycraft? Unless d20 Modern totally flops somehow, it's going to be the d20 standard for doing modern games.

 

[Davelozzi]

c) Third party or not, it will be supported. Others will be making stuff that's compatible with d20 Modern. Can the same thing be said for Spycraft? Unless d20 Modern totally flops somehow, it's going to be the d20 standard for doing modern games.
[/color] [/B]

Have you seen the product line for Spycraft? So far they've released the core book, Shadowforce Archer campaign setting, GC screen/character sheets, Modern Arms Guide, and the Archer Foundation sourcebook, all since what, April? A splatbook comes out next month and then at least another two or three other books are slated to be released before the end of the year. They may not have third party support, but AEG is doing pretty well on their own.

As for d20 Modern, who can say? I haven't heard about any support products yet but so far with the exception of Oriental Adventures, I haven't seen much third party support for any specific WotC products. I guess it all depends on how fast they get it into the SRD. More than likely, both systems will have their pros and cons.

 

[Psion]

Unless d20 Modern totally flops somehow, it's going to be the d20 standard for doing modern games.

This is probably true. However, I consider that unfortunate given the nature of design decisions I have seen to date.

Further, just because lots of people are doing it is no reason to be a lemming. To me, the ultimate issue is what works best. And from what I have seen so far, that appears to be Spycraft.

 

[MythicJustice]

If your're able to get to GenCon and get your hands on a copy of the limited first run of The Gaming Herald, you'll be able to see some of the support products for D20 Modern by 3rd party companies and it includes a few OGC rules as well. From what I understand, there will be wide distribution of this free gaming newsletter at retail locations nation-wide in October.

Remember D20 Modern is trademarked and so you'll have to look at the "Requires the use of..." statement to see if D20 Modern is a required rulebook for the product.

As for support of modern style D20 , look for product announcements soon from many companies; including ours, Mythic Dreams Studios.

Chad Justice