[D20 Modern] M134 (heavy machine gun)

[kreynolds]

If you actually try to fight them, well, unless you're very clever, you die.

Some clever tactics could include...

1) Not fighting it face to face out in the open (that's not very smart)
2) Fighting it with equal or better equipment (i.e. tank vs tank, or even better, helicopter vs tank)
3) Using buildings and other structures as cover to retreat (again, not very smart to go against a powerful weapon if you don't have the means to come close to evening out the fight)
4) Don't stand still.
5) Take advantage of its disadvantages (i.e. get on top of the tank)
6) Taunt it into wasting ammo (i.e. get the tank or minigun to waste precious and limited ammunition on structures and general obstacles)
7) Not fighting it face to face out in the open (that's not very smart)

Granted, 1) and 7) are both identical, but the point is pretty obvious.

I'm not sure there's much point in attempting to stat them, other than as a mental exercise.

Well, I think there's definately a point if they are utilized properly and your players stick to 1) and 7).

My call on your minigun would be 'all within 10x10 area save vs a high DC (30?), or die. If you make save, you are unconscious, at -1 and bleeding.'

That doesn't work very well if you're shooting at a car or building with someone in it though.

 

[Fellwind]

Certainly a simpler mechanic.

If you have half cover you drop to half hp?

 

[kreynolds]

Certainly a simpler mechanic.

Not really. What happens to the cover on a partial miss?

 

[Fellwind]

I'd be pretty arbitrary about it. If its lightweight cover its full of holes. If not its probably spalled.

I doubt the PC's are going to come in contact with weapons like that on a common basis.

 

[kreynolds]

I'd be pretty arbitrary about it. If its lightweight cover its full of holes. If not its probably spalled.

What if its a big vehicle? Like a school bus? A school bus is plenty big enough for two people to be inside it, one at each end, but autofire won't cover the whole vehicle. What if the vehicle isn't destroyed by the shots?

Personally, I think its far too arbitrary. Feels too 2nd editionish.

I doubt the PC's are going to come in contact with weapons like that on a common basis.

Commonalilty doesn't really have anything to do with it. Just because it might not crop up very often doesn't mean that it should be haphazardly written up. Its only fair to your players that a weapon have statistics and that it functions within the rules. Besides, it could be more fun.

 

[Unseelie]

If I were a (typical) PC, but in a game that involved that kind of hardware I would:

a) Run away and call the military
b) Surrender
or c) Quit the game because the GM is clearly not interested in allowing PCs to survive.

But hey, that's me...

Once you start talking Tanks, Helicopter Gunships, and autocannons you've reached Deus Ex Machina... and for a game at D&D's level, that sort of hardware should all be arbitrary. It doesn't scale, IMO.

Or, you break out the wargames...

 

[kreynolds]

If I were a (typical) PC, but in a game that involved that kind of hardware I would:

a) Run away and call the military
b) Surrender
or c) Quit the game because the GM is clearly not interested in allowing PCs to survive.

Hmm. Sounds like you need to try out a new DM.

Once you start talking Tanks, Helicopter Gunships, and autocannons you've reached Deus Ex Machina... and for a game at D&D's level, that sort of hardware should all be arbitrary. It doesn't scale, IMO.

Or, you break out the wargames...

I disagre. I think I've illustrated quite well that these weapons can scale just fine.

An M-60 within 30 feet in the real world is instant death. Period. It doesn't matter how good your target is. They're dead. In D20 Modern, it doesn't work that way.

 

[Unseelie]

Hmm. Sounds like you need to try out a new DM.

Nah, not really. My current GM(s) keep things at a level that the characters can generally handle. Or rather, nothing's being thrown at us that we can't find a solution for if we work at it.

I'm always open to new things though...

Like I said, I don't think modern heavy military hardware scales well to work in D&D without just ignoring the damage and making it a 'save or die' mechanic, and 'save or die' mechanics quickly lead to player frustration.

 

[kreynolds]

Nah, not really. My current GM(s) keep things at a level that the characters can generally handle. Or rather, nothing's being thrown at us that we can't find a solution for if we work at it.

I'm confused. Are you saying that you would be like a deer caught in headlights if an M134 was in an encounter? I don't see how that's a unbeatable encounter.

Like I said, I don't think modern heavy military hardware scales well to work in D&D without just ignoring the damage...

Could I get some specific input from you on this? Do you think that the damage I have listed for the M134 is too low or too high? I ask because you stated that heavy weapons don't scale well, and I don't see that problem, but a fresh perspective might help.

...and 'save or die' mechanics quickly lead to player frustration.

I agree, which is exactly why I didn't do that.

 

[Raptor]

Moot point...but I have looked in Janes and cannot find a tank with the M134 as part of its weaponry.