D20 Modern or Spycraft II?

[Wystan]

Also on the AEG forums they explain how to make the modifications for 'Race' and 'Background' or whatever you want to call them, like 'Grizzled Veteran' and 'Gonzo Test-Subject'.

There is a ton of changes that can be done with Spycraft 2.0

Check the License to Improvise forum as well.
http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=18&sid=7b282e199bdf5b77b51ab40a0d6a8233
http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=78

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

D20 Modern could use some new feats when it comes to firearms. I've been working on new pistol and shotgun feats here: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=D20_Modern_Feats

Yea, one place the SC2 absolutely spanks d20Modern is feats. Spycraft feats are ... evocative. I never want to play SC2 so much as when I'm going over the feats section, and my only issue is that many of the feats just don't translate well to d20Modern so I can't photocopy that section and just pass it out. Many of them make use of the new skill system or floating initiative scores.

(BTW, the new skill system is also a turn-off for me. It does "fix" a few things, but mostly just changes stuff so badly it ruins compatiblity between SC2 and all other d20 products. Plus the skills are harder to, as with everything it seems, move from Superspies to, well, anything else.)

The feats in SC2 often have fun names ... "This Is My Boomstick", they build on one another ... "Melee Basics" to advanced feats, etc. Then again, there's a butt-ton of them.

--fje

 

[Dragonhelm]

Which system would work best? Due to things like wonky gun combat and the fact that Spycraft 2.0 has a much better native hacking, infiltration, and vehicle combat/chase systems, I might shy away from d20 modern.

That said, d20 modern has better SUPPORT for such games, in the form of magic, fantasy races, and cybernetics, in various supplements and third part products. That alone is pretty telling, provided you are willing to invest in the support.

Can Spycraft's base classes work with the various forms of support that d20 Modern has? I have all the essentials in terms of d20 Modern support, save for anything the Game Mechanics have put out. I wouldn't mind getting their books though. I wouldn't think adaptation would be too difficult, but I'm not as familiar with either system.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Problem with interchangability between SC and d20M is the depth of changes that SC has to base d20 gaming.

The skill system is very different, completely so. You get ranks, but each skill is new and has "checks" with "tags" that call to different ability scores and the like.

You'd have to either scrap the Spycraft class skill lists and replace them with d20M cognates or scrap all calls to skills in d20M products and replace them with Spycraft cognates. Same with a few class abilities and the like that face similar broad-base changes.

--fje

 

[buzz]

FWIW, Spycraft 2.0 has been nominated for this year's Diana Jones Award for Excellence in Gaming.

That's pretty high praise. This only the third time a d20/OGL product has been nominated since the award was introduced in 2001.

Me, I like both RPGs, but I would say that, as a ruleset, Spycraft 2.0 would be my choice for better overall product. The game's new owners, Crafty Games, have plans to expand the system with genre supplements. Farthest Star, a Traveller-esque SF setting, is in the works now.

That said, I really like d20M, too, and it has far more support material right now.

 

[Psion]

Can Spycraft's base classes work with the various forms of support that d20 Modern has? I have all the essentials in terms of d20 Modern support, save for anything the Game Mechanics have put out. I wouldn't mind getting their books though. I wouldn't think adaptation would be too difficult, but I'm not as familiar with either system.

I think there'd be some work there. In the case of advanced classes, about the best thing you could do is do a translation to the SC2 skill system, and then port over the class abilities and tweak as needed. It'd almost be as if the new sources are less a straight up mechanical resource and more an inspiration.

Cybernetics would be less of a problem as the gadget system is more of a point build to begin with; you could just spec out gear from other systems,

 

[Committed Hero]

The feats in SC2 often have fun names ... "This Is My Boomstick", they build on one another ... "Melee Basics" to advanced feats, etc. Then again, there's a butt-ton of them.

I don't consider it an advantage when a fun feat name tells you next to nothing about what it does.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I don't consider it an advantage when a fun feat name tells you next to nothing about what it does.

The Spycraft I feat names ranged from good to bad.

I would call Kicking Basics not a great name. "Basics?" It's a good feat, though, and does contain the word "kick".

"The Wheel in One Hand..." and "... A Gun in the Other" are better names, IMO. (They're feats to give drivers the options to shoot in combat with reduced penalties.)

 

[Henry]

I don't consider it an advantage when a fun feat name tells you next to nothing about what it does.

Geek that I am, and Evil Dead/Army of Darkness gushing fan, it tells me that the feat makes me better with shotguns. I don't really consider it a problem, because if I did, I'd have to consider feats like "Combat Expertise", "cautious," or "Magical Aptitude" problems, as well, because they're not clear indicators of what they do.

My personal favorite is "Style over Caliber", which causes a puny James Bond-Walther-Pansy-type weapon to do respectable damage on par with a 9mm or so. Anyone with a .22 target shooting gun picks that as a must-have feat.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Spycraft 2.0 is the better game. It's got some really innovate (for d20, and occasionally for RPGs in general) concepts and once you get used to the MASSIVE FREAKIN BOOK FULL O STUFF (not quite HERO 5r, but unless you're looking at ballistic armor, what is ), it plays well, too.

d20 Modern is easier, faster until you're fully used to both systems, steps outside the archtype box, and is much, much more flexible. Also, the small arms/melee rules are closer to both action movies and reality: Guns are easier to use and have range. Melee weapons require more skill (read, feats) to use well and do more damage.

Spycraft
+ Excellent use of the d20 rules
+ Models the major non-SF spy/action genres
+ Action dice are better than action points
+ Many innovative and useful subsystems
+ NPC generator
+ Expanded skills
- Harder to learn
- Slower until fully mastered, and maybe even then
- WP/VP
- Pointlessly complex initiative system
- Almost no 3rd party support
- About as compatible with other d20 as True20, maybe less

d20 Modern
+ Flexible base classes
+ Compatible with almost every d20 book you ever bought
+ By far the best 3rd party support around
+ Melee/small arms models most movies and real life better
+ Keeps 3.0 cover rules
+ Easy to learn
- Lacks innovative and useful subsystems
- 1st-party support tends to be magic-oriented
- Vehicles and heavy weapons are poorly handled