I think that keeping the d20 licence alive would have costs for WoTC other than opportunity costs. Licence managers don't work for free.
D20 to OGL Checklist?
- Thread starter Sigurd
- Start date
Ranger REG
Explorer
I didn'te realize WotC's Licensing manager(s) worked on commission pushing for royalty-free d20 System Trademark License.
?? Who said that they did?
I'm not sure how much a licensing manager would cost...but I'm not sure there would be much cost at all if the license is simply left hanging.
As far as I know, WOTC has no interest in using the d20 logo, and since 'd20' is no longer part of the 'dress' of 4E, they aren't building its reputation with each new product - in fact, as the market leader, each time they release a product without a "d20" designation, it would seemingly water down the value of the license.
It seems that they could have allowed the license to continue indefinitely, trusting that 4e would be of sufficient quality to drive everyone over to the GSL product. Nota lawyer, but how much 'management' is required for a license that you are leaving unupdated? Could they not also have built a new D20 version, supplanting all prior, that said "all old products may continue, but nothing new"?
I understand WHY they would do it, and I think that from a business only, community-be-durned perspective it might be a shrewd choice. But since they are no longer using the logo/license, it FEELS a lot like a move solely to force people to either spend tons of effort changing old products, or (more likely) causing them to destroy all old products.
(an aside: Let's hope WOTC doesn't present themselves as a 'green' company, based on how much paper they're causing to be sent to the bins)
I think I might have been more okay with it if they had kept the d20 logo, and said that no one else could use it going forward.
In today's economy, I'm moving toward patronizing only small presses anyway, so 4e is out for me...I'll be picking up small house stuff and converting it (when necessary) to True20.
As far as I know, WOTC has no interest in using the d20 logo, and since 'd20' is no longer part of the 'dress' of 4E, they aren't building its reputation with each new product - in fact, as the market leader, each time they release a product without a "d20" designation, it would seemingly water down the value of the license.
It seems that they could have allowed the license to continue indefinitely, trusting that 4e would be of sufficient quality to drive everyone over to the GSL product. Nota lawyer, but how much 'management' is required for a license that you are leaving unupdated? Could they not also have built a new D20 version, supplanting all prior, that said "all old products may continue, but nothing new"?
I understand WHY they would do it, and I think that from a business only, community-be-durned perspective it might be a shrewd choice. But since they are no longer using the logo/license, it FEELS a lot like a move solely to force people to either spend tons of effort changing old products, or (more likely) causing them to destroy all old products.
(an aside: Let's hope WOTC doesn't present themselves as a 'green' company, based on how much paper they're causing to be sent to the bins)
I think I might have been more okay with it if they had kept the d20 logo, and said that no one else could use it going forward.
In today's economy, I'm moving toward patronizing only small presses anyway, so 4e is out for me...I'll be picking up small house stuff and converting it (when necessary) to True20.
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Voadam
Legend
The OGL and d20 STL were set up not to need active management.
There is no review requirement or other active measure required by WotC with these licenses. WotC had discretionary enforcement powers under the licenses but they have been very hands off, only adding in new terms to the d20 STL as they saw a desire to do so.
If they had let the d20 STL continue on or revised it to say no new logos from then on for new products they would not have needed to do anything.
With the way they have handled ending the d20 stl I expect there will be companies with d20 brand products after December or products revised by taking out the logo but missing issues like the compatibility statements and WotC will have to decide how they wish to manage the issue.
Choosing to handle the termination of the d20 STL in this manner seems to have increased WotC's direct costs for license management.
Sigurd
First Post
re destroying old D20 Stock
The bottom line for me is that I had a really good feeling about WOTC when they introduced the D20 License. They were not just about their product but about Gaming. This, to me, was a sign of them coming into their own and recognizing their leadership in role playing games. I came back to Role Playing because of the wealth of writers.
The D20 license, and the loyalty it created, carved up all the game purchasing channels in my area. I remember stores with 30+ different role playing games, but very quickly there was D20 D&D and maybe Warcraft or some other big publisher. Variety didn't include Chaosium and Iron Crown and Gurps, it meant D20 D&D (including lots of splat books) and D20 Modern! The mass support from other publishers swelled the material and made D20 very appealing - still does. They soaked up a lot of creativity that otherwise would have gone into other systems - who knows what might have happened?
Much of my favourite stuff _doesn't_ come from WOTC.
Now they want to start again. I'm big enough to wish them well and be curious about what they might publish. Is their revision so bad that it can't compete with the previous version on merit? Why do they have to stick it to the other publishers and actually force the destruction of stock?
Why do they want to take other publisher's books away from me ? I like weird and wonderful gaming variety. Ether to game with or just to read, I have a huge collection of strange books but I'm sure there are others... At least their would be if they could stay on the shelves. Some of my favourite works have been one offs. How many talented, marginal, or non profitable publishers will be lost to me?
Whats the half-life of an old game? You'd think that eventually disinterest would remove the products anyway. I find it mean spirited that they are taking the profits from the tiny presses and destroying potentially thousands of books just 'because'.
I have every sympathy for publishers in this and nothing but disappointment and resentment for WOTC. As a purchaser, they are forcing the destruction of books I might want to buy. I understand that they _can_ do it, I'm just very disappointed that they stuck it to me the consumer and publishers I appreciate.
Chrysler may no longer sell classic cars but they can't require they be destroyed and taken from the consumer.
Sigurd
I hope people make more of the OGL because it can't be taken away. To me its the beginnings of more open gaming. I see WOTC slipping into the sad shadow of its former leadership.
Emerald Press and Mongoose have really gained stature in my estimation because they are giving their old material a respectful bon voyage. Way too much creativity and invention will simply go quietly into the dark night.
The bottom line for me is that I had a really good feeling about WOTC when they introduced the D20 License. They were not just about their product but about Gaming. This, to me, was a sign of them coming into their own and recognizing their leadership in role playing games. I came back to Role Playing because of the wealth of writers.
The D20 license, and the loyalty it created, carved up all the game purchasing channels in my area. I remember stores with 30+ different role playing games, but very quickly there was D20 D&D and maybe Warcraft or some other big publisher. Variety didn't include Chaosium and Iron Crown and Gurps, it meant D20 D&D (including lots of splat books) and D20 Modern! The mass support from other publishers swelled the material and made D20 very appealing - still does. They soaked up a lot of creativity that otherwise would have gone into other systems - who knows what might have happened?
Much of my favourite stuff _doesn't_ come from WOTC.
Now they want to start again. I'm big enough to wish them well and be curious about what they might publish. Is their revision so bad that it can't compete with the previous version on merit? Why do they have to stick it to the other publishers and actually force the destruction of stock?
Why do they want to take other publisher's books away from me ? I like weird and wonderful gaming variety. Ether to game with or just to read, I have a huge collection of strange books but I'm sure there are others... At least their would be if they could stay on the shelves. Some of my favourite works have been one offs. How many talented, marginal, or non profitable publishers will be lost to me?
Whats the half-life of an old game? You'd think that eventually disinterest would remove the products anyway. I find it mean spirited that they are taking the profits from the tiny presses and destroying potentially thousands of books just 'because'.
I have every sympathy for publishers in this and nothing but disappointment and resentment for WOTC. As a purchaser, they are forcing the destruction of books I might want to buy. I understand that they _can_ do it, I'm just very disappointed that they stuck it to me the consumer and publishers I appreciate.
Chrysler may no longer sell classic cars but they can't require they be destroyed and taken from the consumer.
Sigurd
I hope people make more of the OGL because it can't be taken away. To me its the beginnings of more open gaming. I see WOTC slipping into the sad shadow of its former leadership.
Emerald Press and Mongoose have really gained stature in my estimation because they are giving their old material a respectful bon voyage. Way too much creativity and invention will simply go quietly into the dark night.
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