d20 WWII?

[bubbalin]

I have heard rumours on the spycraft boards that there is a 1940's sourcebook in a similar vein to the 1960's book they put out.
Of course, I'm not much into that side fo the boards, so my information may be a bit off.

 

[Katowice]

Also try Weird War II: http://www.peginc.com/OurGames/WeirdWarTwo.htm

 

[ledded]

As our normal GM won't be available for our weekly game next week, another player is going to GM a one-shot WWII/Supers game. I know we're going to use the Blood and Vigilance for the Supers side of things. I'm not sure, but I believe we're going with Blood and Guts for the WWII flavor. Looking forward to it, tho.

You are half-correct P. I'll be using Blood and Vigilance (which, BTW, I can't tell Mr Rice enough how much I like so far) because of how it fits nicely on top of d20 Modern, but the WWII stuff will be a blend (some V for Victory, gun info from various sources, some of the Bloodstone Press Hell on Earth, and a large portion of my own homebrew based on research and way too many war movies ). Vehicles have been the biggest PITA, but I have a good handle on it without trying to get to granular. It's not going to be completely finished anytime soon, but it will be good enough for us to use.

The WWII portion will include basic rules for Advanced Training, Parachuting, Mortar/Artillery Bombardment, Command and other new/updated skills for the era, Supply/Logistics, Tank combat, Air Strikes and Air Combat, Suppressing Fire, and Fear/Morale checks for all of the above situations. I've updated a list of occupations and advanced classes also.

I don't promise that it will be uber-accurate, but it will capture the flavor well. And Tiger tanks are just plain *yummy* for GM's...

Hey Dana, I'm intrigued by your upcoming Mostly Illustrated RPG Guide to Modern Weapons Volume 6, as I like the other's I've picked up that you've done. Let me ask you this: are you going to cover only small arms, and approximately how many are you going to go into (only major issue weapons of all the biggest players, or everything down to the most obscure Polish service revolver?). And is it just going to be small arms? Please tell me you are going to address anti-tank weapons... *please*. You don't know how much of a PITA it's been for a casual gun guy to try to figure out the exact difference in effect between a late-war bazooka, a Piat, a Panzerschrek, a Panzerfaust, and the various anti-tank rifles... I still dont think I've done that great a job of it for us.

Oh, and while GURPS isnt my preferred system for gaming, the books are very well done and have some *very* good and well-written source information.

There are lots of good books out there too for general information, though I would suggest reading one or two written from the perspective of someone who was there and not just a dissertation of all the facts surrounding key battles. I just finished 'On to Berlin' by General James Gavin and it was a very engaging look at the war from the perspective of a WWII 'fighting general' in an Airborne unit.

 

[Dana_Jorgensen]

Hey Dana, I'm intrigued by your upcoming Mostly Illustrated RPG Guide to Modern Weapons Volume 6, as I like the other's I've picked up that you've done. Let me ask you this: are you going to cover only small arms, and approximately how many are you going to go into (only major issue weapons of all the biggest players, or everything down to the most obscure Polish service revolver?). And is it just going to be small arms? Please tell me you are going to address anti-tank weapons... *please*. You don't know how much of a PITA it's been for a casual gun guy to try to figure out the exact difference in effect between a late-war bazooka, a Piat, a Panzerschrek, a Panzerfaust, and the various anti-tank rifles... I still dont think I've done that great a job of it for us.

The most obscure service revolver used by the Polish Army?!!! Are you crazy?! The Polish Army was formed after WW1 and they bought a hodge podge of weapons from every corner of the globe. They only had two standardized weapons in their service at the outbreak of the war, and one of them was an SMG that never entered mass production... So, to cover the most obscure service revolvers used by Poland, I'd have to write an entire volume dedicated just to their horribly large selection of handguns... Their standardized weapons will be covered, however.

Anyway, it will be covering the usual selection of weapons, meaning anything men carried into battle. That will include anti-tank weapons, as well as the astonishing variety of grenades that were available during the war. The book will probably detail between 150 and 200 weapons of various types. AT weapons, of course, will be covered under the same alternate rules originally introduced in the Special Edition.

 

[ledded]

The most obscure service revolver used by the Polish Army?!!! Are you crazy?! The Polish Army was formed after WW1 and they bought a hodge podge of weapons from every corner of the globe. They only had two standardized weapons in their service at the outbreak of the war, and one of them was an SMG that never entered mass production... So, to cover the most obscure service revolvers used by Poland, I'd have to write an entire volume dedicated just to their horribly large selection of handguns... Their standardized weapons will be covered, however.

Why did I *know* that comment was going to touch you off

Anyway, it will be covering the usual selection of weapons, meaning anything men carried into battle. That will include anti-tank weapons, as well as the astonishing variety of grenades that were available during the war. The book will probably detail between 150 and 200 weapons of various types. AT weapons, of course, will be covered under the same alternate rules originally introduced in the Special Edition.

*drooling* I look forward to your treatment of the subject... rifle grenades and panzerfausts and pineapples oh my

I'd love to see someone with your level of knowledge do a treatment of WWII vehicles and their armaments in d20 Modern fashion, including artillery/AA pieces (just what does a 20mm exploding round *do* in game terms anyway? ) but I guess I'll have to wait. I think what I've culled from various sources will work ok, but I'm not that confident. Hell on Earth did a pretty decent job with vehicles, but I dont necessarily agree with how every thing was stat'ed, and it was pretty light on halftracks (and their gazillion variations) so I'm just extrapolating from a lot of their stuff and changing/adding thing where my admittedly flawed research tells me something a little different.

Now I just can't wait till I get the guys to put their minis on the table, then drop the 2 Tigers, 2 Panzer Mk IV's, Jagdtiger, and 3 halftracks on there I've been working on in my secret mini lab at home all these months.

Mu. Hua. Hua hahahhahahaha...<cough> <cough> sorry about that.

 

[Dana_Jorgensen]

Why did I *know* that comment was going to touch you off



*drooling* I look forward to your treatment of the subject... rifle grenades and panzerfausts and pineapples oh my

I'd love to see someone with your level of knowledge do a treatment of WWII vehicles and their armaments in d20 Modern fashion, including artillery/AA pieces (just what does a 20mm exploding round *do* in game terms anyway? ) but I guess I'll have to wait. I think what I've culled from various sources will work ok, but I'm not that confident. Hell on Earth did a pretty decent job with vehicles, but I dont necessarily agree with how every thing was stat'ed, and it was pretty light on halftracks (and their gazillion variations) so I'm just extrapolating from a lot of their stuff and changing/adding thing where my admittedly flawed research tells me something a little different.

Now I just can't wait till I get the guys to put their minis on the table, then drop the 2 Tigers, 2 Panzer Mk IV's, Jagdtiger, and 3 halftracks on there I've been working on in my secret mini lab at home all these months.

Mu. Hua. Hua hahahhahahaha...<cough> <cough> sorry about that.

well... products by me focusing on other military equipment will likely be produced eventually. One way late product I've been working on is a product called Edge Road. To quote my own blurb on it:

"Edge Road is the Guide to the Cutting Edge. An irregularly published series for Modern, Technothriller and Cyberpunk genre games, this book follows technological trends, scientific discovery, and gadgets & gimmicks, presenting them in a manner that makes them useful to the game. As with Big Bang, Edge Road will be a multi-system guide to all things technological."

I already have plans to go back and do some era-based products of a similar nature, with their focus detailed by their titles below:
Gangbusters (1920's-1935)
The Hemingway Years (1900-1920)
World At War Vol. 1 & 2 ( WW1 & WW2)
Early Cold War (1945-1957)
Space Race (1957-1980)
Fall of Communism (1980-1992)
One Superpower (1992-2002)

However, the series isn't one that's on the front burner; as it is, the first volume will likely be about 14 months behind schedule, as my current primary goals are Big Bang and CyberThriller. More likely, I'll end up doing paper minis of ww2 military vehicles before I end up writing a book focusing on them.

BTW, when you say "exploding 20mm round", are you referring to a grenade-like round or a cannon round? There's some serious differences in the effects of the two.

 

[ledded]

well... products by me focusing on other military equipment will likely be produced eventually. One way late product I've been working on is a product called Edge Road. To quote my own blurb on it:

"Edge Road is the Guide to the Cutting Edge. An irregularly published series for Modern, Technothriller and Cyberpunk genre games, this book follows technological trends, scientific discovery, and gadgets & gimmicks, presenting them in a manner that makes them useful to the game. As with Big Bang, Edge Road will be a multi-system guide to all things technological."

I already have plans to go back and do some era-based products of a similar nature, with their focus detailed by their titles below:
Gangbusters (1920's-1935)
The Hemingway Years (1900-1920)
World At War Vol. 1 & 2 ( WW1 & WW2)
Early Cold War (1945-1957)
Space Race (1957-1980)
Fall of Communism (1980-1992)
One Superpower (1992-2002)

However, the series isn't one that's on the front burner; as it is, the first volume will likely be about 14 months behind schedule, as my current primary goals are Big Bang and CyberThriller. More likely, I'll end up doing paper minis of ww2 military vehicles before I end up writing a book focusing on them.

All sounds very cool, I look forward to seeing your work on the various subjects. The paper minis of ww2 vehicles sounds interesting; there are a few out there on the 'net that I've toyed around with. Though for me, being a mini's nut, there's nothing like the feel of a nice heavy diecast Solido/Verem/Corgi in 1:50 scale once you've added some detail painting and whatnot yourself.

BTW, when you say "exploding 20mm round", are you referring to a grenade-like round or a cannon round? There's some serious differences in the effects of the two.

Well, that's often been a bit of a problem for me. I've read a lot of different accounts where someone tells a story about facing a german anti-aircraft or vehicle mounted AP 20mm with "exploding rounds" and the average GI's abject fear of them, but they rarely distinguish between the two except in described effects (not mentioning what kind of vehicle or artillery piece was doing the firing). Many of these I've read are from accounts during Market Garden, and then some later during the Bulge. Many of the Market Garden stories were from AA pieces being forced into service against personnel, and the opposite from the stories from the Battle of the Bulge; halftrack or small armored vehicle mounted were more prevalent. Quite possibly the author of the stories didnt know exactly what it was, only that it went *BOOM* way too close to them, but I was often curious when they would describe the effects.

 

[Dana_Jorgensen]

Well, that's often been a bit of a problem for me. I've read a lot of different accounts where someone tells a story about facing a german anti-aircraft or vehicle mounted AP 20mm with "exploding rounds" and the average GI's abject fear of them, but they rarely distinguish between the two except in described effects (not mentioning what kind of vehicle or artillery piece was doing the firing). Many of these I've read are from accounts during Market Garden, and then some later during the Bulge. Many of the Market Garden stories were from AA pieces being forced into service against personnel, and the opposite from the stories from the Battle of the Bulge; halftrack or small armored vehicle mounted were more prevalent. Quite possibly the author of the stories didnt know exactly what it was, only that it went *BOOM* way too close to them, but I was often curious when they would describe the effects.

Okay, we're still talking WW2. They'd be cannon rounds. The 20 x 82mm MG151 cartridge developed by Mauser in the 30's to be precise. 110 gram projectile moving at 720 m/s with 21,030 ft lbs of energy. Without exploding, it would penetrate 110 inches of ballistic gelatin and disrupt 1030 cubic inches of material. At 18 inches depth for the average torso, the round could potentially slam its way through as many as six troops. They were originally designed to work as armor piercing anti-tank munitions, but were modified for anti-aircraft use, resulting in a large blast radius of 15 or 20 meters, filled with fewer but larger fragments of shrapnel, to better damage aircraft skins. So on personnel, these rounds would likely hit a target and detonate within the body or after passing through the body, either way making a complete mess. If it manages to pass through a body before detonating, then it would also stand a fair chance of critically or mortally wounding anyone within 10 or 15 meters, as well.

On the flip side, we have one 20mm grenade round for comparison, for the XM29 SABR, the M1018 HEAB cartridge.That launches a 160 gram projectile at a speed estimated at around 320 m/s and 6040 ft-lbs of energy. In comparison, it would penetrate 49 inches of gelatin and disrupt 296 cubic inches. It has a blast radius of 5 meters, but is filled with thousands of shards of shrapnel in that area, making it both more likely to injure and less likely to kill.

 

[ledded]

Okay, we're still talking WW2. They'd be cannon rounds. The 20 x 82mm MG151 cartridge developed by Mauser in the 30's to be precise. 110 gram projectile moving at 720 m/s with 21,030 ft lbs of energy. Without exploding, it would penetrate 110 inches of ballistic gelatin and disrupt 1030 cubic inches of material. At 18 inches depth for the average torso, the round could potentially slam its way through as many as six troops. They were originally designed to work as armor piercing anti-tank munitions, but were modified for anti-aircraft use, resulting in a large blast radius of 15 or 20 meters, filled with fewer but larger fragments of shrapnel, to better damage aircraft skins. So on personnel, these rounds would likely hit a target and detonate within the body or after passing through the body, either way making a complete mess. If it manages to pass through a body before detonating, then it would also stand a fair chance of critically or mortally wounding anyone within 10 or 15 meters, as well.

On the flip side, we have one 20mm grenade round for comparison, for the XM29 SABR, the M1018 HEAB cartridge.That launches a 160 gram projectile at a speed estimated at around 320 m/s and 6040 ft-lbs of energy. In comparison, it would penetrate 49 inches of gelatin and disrupt 296 cubic inches. It has a blast radius of 5 meters, but is filled with thousands of shards of shrapnel in that area, making it both more likely to injure and less likely to kill.

Oh, BTW, a belated thanks for this info Dana.

I recently was running a WWII Supers game, and the player's C-47 was torn up by one of these, got another one turned on them while they were parachuting and then while on the ground. I loved it, they... not so much

 

[fenzer]

Okay Ledded, now that you've wet my appetite, when am I going to read the story hour?

I am thinking of buying Hell on Earth for my own twisted WWII ideas. I have all the Weird War II stuff and really like what they have done, especially the dogfight rules. At this point, I have no complaints with the firearms rules in d20 Modern. I think I will use them in my WWII jaunt.

Dana you mentioned Bloodstone did some tweaking with the firearms rules, breaking them. What exactly did they change? Are their vehicle rules broken too? How is the arial combat?