Andrew D. Gable
First Post
I've always wanted to do a game mixing WWII and Call of Cthulhu for a "back in the day" Delta Green game. Although Atridis' ideas about WWII-era World of Darkness hold an appeal, too.
d20 WWII?
- Thread starter Atridis
- Start date
fenzer said:
What did they change?
Well, for starters, to get all the data for one weapon, you need to refer to two different tables, as nobody at bloodstone considered putting enough effort into formatting and layout to get all the weapon data onto one line in one table...
Then... They used their own damage ratings, rather than working within the 2d4/2d6/2d8/2d10/2d12 range established in D20 modern (.357 Magnum does 1d12 damage, .32 ACP does 1d10), they provide oddball range increments (Luger P08 RI is... 18 feet, a Mauser Gewehr 98 Karabiner has an RI of 225 ft), then they give you new weapon stats for "critical failure", "hardness" and "HP", but only give a definition for the use of critical failure, and its brief at that...
Can't say the vehicle rules are broken, since they're using straight D20M vehicle rules. However, I will say that the stats they arrived at are... odd. Stuff like Jeeps with hardness of 5 and a number of fielded WW2 era tanks with hardness ratings almost equal to or better than an M1 Abrams.
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Thanks Dana. I appreciate your imput.
For 8 bucks, it seems hard to go wrong though. You mentioned that they use d20 Modern rules for vehicles but what of their air combat rules? Unless I missed them, d20 Modern's rules regarding same are slim to nonexistent, "...coming in a future release."
Weird Wars has done an excellent job with air combat and these are the rules I will probably use. It would be nice, however, if the rules in Hell on Earth were good enough to use, less conversion issues.
For 8 bucks, it seems hard to go wrong though. You mentioned that they use d20 Modern rules for vehicles but what of their air combat rules? Unless I missed them, d20 Modern's rules regarding same are slim to nonexistent, "...coming in a future release."
Weird Wars has done an excellent job with air combat and these are the rules I will probably use. It would be nice, however, if the rules in Hell on Earth were good enough to use, less conversion issues.
fenzer said:
To be honest, I never read them, since air combat isn't likely to ever be a significant portion of any game I play in or run.
ledded
Herder of monkies
I have to agree with Dana on pretty much every point. Plus, they allow a .45 to force a fort save or be knocked prone. Yeah, I know 45's hit harder than 9mm, but is it *really* that much harder? And the range increments seem a bit wonky, but I'm no expert. Personally, I'm going with weapon data that I've culled over the last 6 months from Dana's work and the input of guys over at the Wizard's boards like Razorface, Johannixx, Montanakennedy and a few others. As far as Critical Failures, I'm also using some tables that Dana did a while back and posted on the Wizards boards with a few of my own additions.Dana_Jorgensen said:
The 2 tables for almost everything, with the tables spread out all over the place is annoying. I like my tables to be easily referenced in game, and theirs aren't.
The vehicles are something I really wanted to see, as it has been the most research intensive for me; their information was a bit... strange... at times, though I found some of it to be usable. I took many of their values and compared it to my research and adjusted where I thought necessary (probably sacrificing a little realism but oh well I gave it my best shot). One thing I do, though, is divide up an armored vehicle into 5 mains areas (sides, top, bottom, front, back) and adjust the DR with the best information I've had available, basing DR loosely on the given hardness/hp given by the Modern book for 1 inch (approx 25mm) of steel. I use a simple 'facing' die roll to determine which 'side' someone hits with an attack on an armored vehicle based on their current position.
Now on to a few things I liked:
The actual vehicle rules are d20 Modern simple, but with some manuvers and extra stuff for planes that keep it somewhat abstract and cinematic, but still allow you to do a few nice stunts. It's a bit over-simple, but for the level I wanted it worked out pretty well.
I like the enviromental modifiers for ground vehicles, so you can assign penalties and whatnot for conditions like heavy mud, ice, heavy underbrush, etc.
While I didnt care for some of the stats and a few rules associted with weapons, there is a good many of them in there, including aircraft rockets, different mortars, a good variety of artillery with different kinds of rounds, etc. I used some where I had some holes in my own work, but was suspicious of a few others, so you just have to take it for what it's worth to you.
There are a few pretty good Advanced Classes that seemed a bit well thought out at times, and a few new feats that I liked also, as well as a couple that I didnt (there are a few feats printed in there that were borrowed from other works that I think should have been credited a little more obviously).
A few new rules for wartime stuff like indirect fire and whatnot were covered, but I had worked some of those out on my own before I bought it, and went with mine for the most part. Some of them seemed pretty good, though.
There is a little bit of decent flavor text here and there, and a few campaign ideas, but it's light on the fluff (and not always *completely* accurate on a few specifics, but accurate enough for most folks
). However, for the money, it was a little more than I expected so I was fairly pleased.All in all, it was worth the money I paid for it if for nothing better than a standard of comparison to my own researched stats and rules, and as a source for things I didnt want to try to design on my own.
Oh and just to note, when we did the first session it started with a rather large battle... I've got the minis and models for tanks and stuff, so it was fun. We had several guys on the ground with a Sherman, a couple British Matilda tanks, a halftrack, some trucks, a couple jeeps, and an armored command car. One PC was flying a Mustang called in for Air support with his wingman, and were confronted with a couple of BF-109's right before the engagement. On the German side I had a Tiger, a Panther, a Panzer Mk IV, a few Sdf Halftracks (MG, Flamethrower, and rocket-firing) and a few kubelwagons. I was surprised that it worked out a lot like I expected it to; the Tiger and the Panther were a holy terror to the opposing armor but the G.I.'s were smart enough to take out one of them in a key location on the road, slowing the others down. The Sherman didn't fare very well vs. a sneaky Jerry with a Panzerfaust, though the Matilda's did pretty good rooting out MG42's from the buildings ahead while waiting on the German armor to jockey around the burning tank enough to get a shot at them. The infantry did *not* fare well vs. the MG42's or the tank mounted MG's, and pretty much most of the NPC's who left cover while most of the tanks and halftracks were still active took it pretty hard. The Americans were out-gunned and out-numbered, and the German force counter-attacked with such a ferocity it set them back on their heels; a well timed mortar barrage to the rear of the G.I.'s took out the trucks and the command car while 2 tanks took it at the same time near the front, and then it pretty much fell apart for the Americans. Then the BBEG Das Ubermenschen showed up
Meanwhile, the mustang had managed to take out a German tank with his rockets, but got his wingman shot out from behind him on the run, and himself shot up trying to shake the BF-109's. He managed to crash near the battle site, and was crawling away badly injured when it all went to heck.
All-in-all, a near TPK, but one that was engineered in such a way as to allow their characters to 'awaken' their Super powers.
The next mission, when they had all of their powers from Chuck Rice's Blood and Vigilance, it went a good bit different
There will be a Story Hour for this WWII Supers game when I get a chance to write it up; the game has sort of an old-comics feel to it (but a good bit grittier) so it should be fun. I have digital pic's taken in-game of the terrain/minis that I will more than likely post up then also.
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ledded
Herder of monkies
Yes, I know, and my apologies to German speakers everywhere. I stole the phrase from somewhere else because I liked the sound of it, but later realized that it is almost meaningless (even though Babelfish will translate Ubermenschen into "Supermen" if you dont forget to put the little dots over the 'U'Douane said:"Das Ubermenschen" ?
Folkert
). It is meant to convey the equivalent to "those super-men" or "those that are more than men" but unfortunately does not do so very well.
But it sounded cool when I read it in context, there ya go
All Your Base Are Belong to Us Ubermenschen!
Ledded, you are an inspiration to us all. I only wish I had your patience and talent. I will gobble up any story hour you put together.
Thanks for the info on Hell on Earth. I think I will hold off for now. My WWII campaign is on hold and will be for a while.
Dana, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. I appreciate your imput.
Thanks for the info on Hell on Earth. I think I will hold off for now. My WWII campaign is on hold and will be for a while.
Dana, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. I appreciate your imput.
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