Daggerheart "Description on Demand" a GM DON'T

[SteveC]

I have seen this go different ways depending on the type of player. You have some players who love this sort of thing and get excited by it. And then you have those who hate it the intensity of 10000 suns. And then you have the quiet player who just isn't very skilled or interested in it.

As the GM you need to work with your players and give them the game they will have fun with. But also you take into consideration that DaggerHeart tells you it does this on the tin. Your players should expect some of this sort of thing as part of the expected experience.

I think the advice to not do this is just that: advice. Does it make the game better? Depends. If I'm playing DaggerHeart I'd expect it.

 

[zakael19]

What, as if you only ever discuss things that are required?
And, in general, even setting immersion aside, we each like different stuff - each person has their own personal desires for their gaming experiences.

It is an entertainment. You should expect discussion of it to be figuratively swimming in a sea of subjectivity. Deal with it.



Yes. That's what we call a "conversation starter".

Sir this is a Wendy's?

I dont think there's any helpful or interesting conversation about immersion to be had here. If the sort of collaborative description work that DH wants you to engage in doesnt work for you, find a game that suits you better.

 

[Vael]

I think it is natural to push toward the edges of "what's allowed." One of my most wonderful campaigns ever started with my decree "no elves;no ninjas" and player choosing an elf ninja. The world we crafted based on that last legit 20 real world years.

It's why I like 13th Age's One Unique Thing, it's a fun prompt. Doesn't always work well, but it's a fun idea, why is your PC special?

 

[darjr]

I don’t mind the technique because it doesn’t necessarily break my immersion

 

[darjr]

The thing though is Daggerheart does just fine if you dint do it.

 

[Arilyn]

The thing though is Daggerheart does just fine if you dint do it.

Yep. It's encouraged but not essential and I think does a great job of introducing the style. Players can ease into it, jump in with both feet or play without it.

 

[overgeeked]

Yep. It's encouraged but not essential and I think does a great job of introducing the style. Players can ease into it, jump in with both feet or play without it.

That's one insight I think is spot on. The fail state of a Daggerheart game is D&D 5E. Even if you ignore all the narrative-focused stuff, you've still got a pretty good superheroic fantasy action-adventure game.

 

[Edgar Ironpelt]

"Where did you get that sword?" is a question about a character's backstory (or history, if he got the sword during play). Character backstory is something on the border between the player's and the GM's areas of authority and responsibility, usually on the player's side of the line, but with the GM having a veto for things that don't fit the setting.

Player: "I have a halfling foster-brother!"
GM: "No you don't. There are no halfings in this world. Now you might have a goblin foster-brother, because that's something that could happen."

Demanding that a player invent backstory on the spot and in the heat of play can easily be rude, but I don't see it as "description by demand" proper, which would be something like

GM: "You see a sword for sale in the marketplace. What does it look like?"

Here the GM is asking me to be an assistant GM running an NPC, rather than a player running a PC, and unless I explictly signed on for such a game, contrary to my usual preferences, then that's a strong NO for me.

 

[Retros_x]

I never understood the immersion discussion. For me immersion is not a sign of quality of TTRPG at all, I am super rarely immersed. Immersion is for me a very sensory feeling, I have it most often in good movies or AAA games with high production values, when sound and visuals immerse me in the world. It is also for me a solitary feeling, Its me silent in the chair of the movie theatre or with my headphones in the dark in front of my TV.

At TTRPG I am fully realizing all the times that we are not a group of hobbits on an epic journey, but a bunch of joking friends at the table, we eat pizza and play pretend to be a bunch of adventurers. I see them rolling a Nat 20 and everybody screaming in joy - I am immersed in the game itself on a meta level, but I think I am super rarely immersed in the ficional world and narration. The rare moments when I am immersed in the narration is when the DM does a "cutscene" with a sophisticated narration und soundtrack aka once again sensory and solitary (everyone shuts up for a few minutes). For one monologue this is fine but I could never play a full evening like that, that would destroy for me the appeal of TTRPG.

IMO immersion is nice to have from time to time in TTRPG, but shouldn't be the target indicator for a GM. Player engagement is much more important for this medium of entertainment.

To the topic of "description on demand": Our tables love this. We do it all the time (we have two tables with overlapping friends and switching DMs). So people who claim its "objectively" bad DMing are plain wrong. Its a matter of preference and everbody who claims otherwise is giving a very opinionated advice that I wouldn't take too seriously (The Alexandrian in a nutshell).

 

[TheSword]

Very interesting reading this thread and it’s made me aware of something I’ve only started doing since DMing for new people.

I would never ask a player to describe something that I have added to the world. I would always expect that to be my job.

However I do regularly ask players ‘what would your character think about X’ or ‘How would your character feel seeing this for the first time’. Essentially how would their characters react on an intellectual or emotional level. Particularly if I think their characters reaction would have an interesting insight. I find it helps to add to the roleplaying, intrigue and mystery elements of the game. Particularly when playing online and not able to see each other.

I’ll also ask players about what they would like their knowledge on a subject to be based on how they view their character. “There is the Four Seasons Coach house, would any of your characters have travelled on the Four Seasons coach before?. I’d then tailor my description to their answer,

So I put folks on the spot. But in a way that hopefully doesn’t embarrass them. What do folks think… is it acceptable? Particularly for folks that don’t like description on demand?