Daily Powers don't belong on the Fighter

[Gilladian]

I'm not fond of the daily mechanic, but I'm even less fond of the "pool of points to track constantly" alternative. It is rife for abuse; this power costs x but is more valuable than that one that costs the same; how do these two powers work together, etc....

The only way I've ever heard dailies described that "worked" for me storywise was the idea that the fighter, for example, was constantly TRYING to push his foe, or trip him, or whatever, and this time, when he used his power, was the only time it worked, or nearly or partly worked.

 

[LordBill]

Instead of martial Daily powers, I would give them at will powers that have some trade off.

Whirlwind attack could be an at will, but requires a full round action, and might have a penalty to hit, but can attack everyone around the fighter.

For example.

 

[variant]

Instead of martial Daily powers, I would give them at will powers that have some trade off.

Whirlwind attack could be an at will, but requires a full round action, and might have a penalty to hit, but can attack everyone around the fighter.

For example.

With the fighter getting an additional theme, I expect anything extra the fighter gets will be abstract bonuses. Whirlwind would be in a theme.

 

[variant]

edited: double post

 

[Warbringer]

So this won't happen, but I was thinking about a mechanic for this that might work, and is somewhat based on real life... Im a martial artist, a lapsed one anyway, and in essence the more advanced my opponent, the more difficult it is to land a complex blow.... That said

What if the powers list was like the clerics spell list, a series of moves that a fighter could draw on, but only when they successfully hit, and then by a margin....

Hit by less than 2 difference.... Basic attack
Hit by 2 .... A little bit of an opening to do a minor stunt ( eg at will)
Hit by 5 .... A more substantial opportunity to do a more powerful stunt ( per encounter or x/ day)
Hit by 10 ... An enemy is completely off balance or out of position, do you best stunt ( daily)

Certainly makes creating advantage a very important tactic, especially against more advanced foes.

.... For balance the same mechanic would have to have a similar mechanic for spell casting ( casting check)

... Just a throw away idea

 

[Obryn]

My biggest concern is making sure the Fighter can keep pace with the other classes. I have no qualms whatsoever about daily stuff, but I acknowledge that it may not be the best thing to have in the core game at release.

I just don't want Fighters getting completely overshadowed at higher levels simply because they're not using magic. If WotC can do that - and provide more tactical, 4e-style martial options in a rules module of some sort available at or soon after launch - I'll be content.

-O

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

I recall a Legends and Lore article or blog post discussing giving the fighter extra attacks and allowing him to use those to make combat maneuvers (trip, sunder, disarm, ect.).

Regardless of what else the fighter gets, I would love a system like this. Let anyone make these attempts, but the fighter is the best at them and can string together a combo. For example, make a trip attempt followed by an attack against a prone target.

Beyond that, a fighter could have advanced maneuvers that use extra attacks as a resource. Most would cost one attack, but perhaps some could cost two.

This way, the Fighter's resource is an action economy. It refreshes every round. That seems the most fighterish to me.

 

[Lalato]

Please do not bring back 3e's iterative attacks. I beg of you, please. One action per turn is more than enough. All the extra die rolling of extra attacks is pointless and slows things down. The Surge mechanic isn't quite as bad as the old iterative attacks because it limits extra actions to the point where they aren't so disruptive to the flow of the game.

I don't have a problem with daily abilities, but I can understand not wanting them. This is not even close to a 4e-style daily power. My fluff for it (like others that have posted before me) is that the fighter knows he can push himself in combat, but doing so can wear him out. He chooses when to push himself, and when he does so he can take that extra action. That said, I would prefer no extra actions if we can help it.

Special maneuvers is a potential solution. The problem is that special maneuvers is that they take away from the fighter's main niche. He does consistent damage to enemies so that they have to try and take him out or he will kill them, one by one. If you want the special maneuvers anyway, then you have to come up with maneuvers that still do damage (perhaps reduced damage) for the gained special effect.

In the Whirlwind Attack above, I would personally have a problem with the fighter rolling to attack potentially eight targets and doing potentially max damage to all of them. I would much rather the fighter get a single attack roll on one target, and if he hits, he gets a small amount of damage on the other targets. Perhaps Whirlwind attack also gives the fighter advantage so that he has a better chance of success.

Same goes for Disarm or Trip or anything else. Each maneuver needs to do at least some token amount of damage. Otherwise the fighter is most definitely not pulling his weight.

 

[Bedrockgames]

My biggest concern is making sure the Fighter can keep pace with the other classes. I have no qualms whatsoever about daily stuff, but I acknowledge that it may not be the best thing to have in the core game at release.

I just don't want Fighters getting completely overshadowed at higher levels simply because they're not using magic. If WotC can do that - and provide more tactical, 4e-style martial options in a rules module of some sort available at or soon after launch - I'll be content.

-O

All the fighter needs to keep pace is the ability to attack multiple targets and a hefty damage bonus to all his attacks. Give the fighter alone multiple attacks (maybe starting at 2 and going up to four by 20th level). Dnt make this daily powers or over complicate it though. Extra attacks and beefier damage will go a long way to making the fighter.

 

[Obryn]

All the fighter needs to keep pace is the ability to attack multiple targets and a hefty damage bonus to all his attacks. Give the fighter alone multiple attacks (maybe starting at 2 and going up to four by 20th level). Dnt make this daily powers or over complicate it though. Extra attacks and beefier damage will go a long way to making the fighter.

I think history has shown that this is not necessarily the case...

-O