D&D 5E Damage Die Steps

Weiley31

Legend
So, I wanted to play with the idea of PCs being able to increase the Damage Die of a weapon by one or two steps. Now going by 5E weapon damage die logic, I pretty much get it. (I think) However, my question comes in regard to what happens when a Weapon is 1D12. Now, in theory that should go up to 2D4, I think, if I go by my logic. But the problem is, wouldn't a weapon with a damage die of 2D4 be weaker compared to a 1D12? And if it is, what would be the most logical step to move up to? A 2D6 seems like it. But then that seems like it's a moot point as an upgrade. (And yet, that's pretty much almost in the ball park of the 1D12, just more reliable I would assume in hitting the maximum damage value of 12 compared to the risk of a 1D12 and hitting the highest number on it.)

Not quite sure to be honest.
 

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clearstream

(He, Him)
So, I wanted to play with the idea of PCs being able to increase the Damage Die of a weapon by one or two steps. Now going by 5E weapon damage die logic, I pretty much get it. (I think) However, my question comes in regard to what happens when a Weapon is 1D12. Now, in theory that should go up to 2D4, I think, if I go by my logic. But the problem is, wouldn't a weapon with a damage die of 2D4 be weaker compared to a 1D12? And if it is, what would be the most logical step to move up to? A 2D6 seems like it. But then that seems like it's a moot point as an upgrade. (And yet, that's pretty much almost in the ball park of the 1D12, just more reliable I would assume in hitting the maximum damage value of 12 compared to the risk of a 1D12 and hitting the highest number on it.)

Not quite sure to be honest.
Perhaps

1
2.5 : 1d4
3.5: 1d6
4.5: 1d8
5.5: 1d10
6.5: 1d12
7: 2d6
9: 2d8
11: 2d10
13: 2d12

Or you can mix the die types for a smoother progression.
 



dave2008

Legend
If it was strictly steps it would be:

1d4
1d6
1d8
1d10
1d12
1d20

However that is a big jump from 1d12 to 1d20. So you want to emulate a 1d14 or 7.5 average.

2d6 = 7 average
2d8 = 9 average.

So normally I would go with 2d6 and follow the same step process
 




Weiley31

Legend
Pick up some Zocchi dice!

Edit. Sorry bad link

Zocchi dice have:
D3,D5,D7,D14,D16,D24,D30

If it was strictly steps it would be:

1d4
1d6
1d8
1d10
1d12
1d20

However that is a big jump from 1d12 to 1d20. So you want to emulate a 1d14 or 7.5 average.

2d6 = 7 average
2d8 = 9 average.

So normally I would go with 2d6 and follow the same step process
I actually have some DCC dice and thought of doing that, but then I told myself that I wanted to stick with 5E dice and not go too crazy with introducing new dice type.
 

NotAYakk

Legend
1d12 goes go 2d6 or 2d8.

But I'd reconsider; the damage die of a weapon should be a property of the weapon, not the wielder.

In fact this is a more fun way (in my opinion) to have magical weapons; a magical greataxe that does 2d8 damage, and you can choose to reroll a missed attack in exchange for the attack dealing damage to you as well if it hits (this damage cannot be prevented).

It works out to +1 damage (+2 on crits) is a not that strong mechanic that you are going to have to spend time tweaking, because it is fiddly. It being part of a weapon means you don't have to have a generic system for it.
 



dave2008

Legend
1d12 goes go 2d6 or 2d8.

But I'd reconsider; the damage die of a weapon should be a property of the weapon, not the wielder.

In fact this is a more fun way (in my opinion) to have magical weapons; a magical greataxe that does 2d8 damage, and you can choose to reroll a missed attack in exchange for the attack dealing damage to you as well if it hits (this damage cannot be prevented).

It works out to +1 damage (+2 on crits) is a not that strong mechanic that you are going to have to spend time tweaking, because it is fiddly. It being part of a weapon means you don't have to have a generic system for it.
I disagree, somewhat, particularly in 5e. I think 5e should have skill (particularly for fighters) measured to some degree by adding damage. Like how 4e's basic attacks scaled similar to cantrips. This indicates how the fighter has become more proficient with their attacks. So a fighter does 1d8 with damage with as sword, then 2d8 at 10th level and 3d8 at 20th (though I could just follow the cantrip path too).

However, I am all for adding more damage to magical weapons. Magic weapons in our game do not typically give to hit bonus, but extra damage instead. So a +3 sword might deal 3d8 more damage, not +3 to hit and +3 to damage.
 

Weiley31

Legend
1d12 goes go 2d6
Well, 2D6 would show the wielding is better at using the weapon and is more reliably able to hit the highest damage with it. And it would make it be in the same range as the Greatsword. I already have Fullblades doing 2D10 so that wouldn't be a bad compromise.
 

Horwath

Hero
with no 1+1/2 str mod to 2Handed weapons, all 2Handed weapons should have 2 damage dice
2d3->2d4->2d6->2d8->2d10

1Handed should go;
1d3->1d4->1d6->1d8->1d10
 

Lazvon

Explorer
Mixing the dice like a d6 and a d8 is nice because if the person has a standard set of dice, they don’t have duplicates so they can role both at same time without borrowing.
 

Each time you increase the base number by 2, you increase the average by 1. So going from 1d6 to 1d8 is an increase of +1 damage (in this case, going from 3.5 to 4.5 average damage.)

Going from 1d(2n) to 2dn is slightly different. E.g. 2d4 is slightly more damage on average than 1d8, but the hardest hits are much rarer than the average hits as a result (8 has a 12.5% chance on 1d8, but only half that on 2d4.) It's still realistically an upgrade, but it's a smaller one.

If you want to go into higher die sizes, you'd have to accept partial measures. E.g.

1d12
2d6 (a weak boost)
2d8 (a big boost)
2d10

Or, alternatively, you could go from 1d12 to 1d6+1d8, which is a bigger boost than average. Then it goes up one die at a time, 2d8, 1d8+1d10, 2d10, 1d10+1d12, 2d12. At that point, you shouldn't have to worry about any other results anyway, because you're already 6 steps beyond the maximum damage die size in D&D proper.
 


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