Damage reduction question

[kreynolds]

Hey Kreynolds: unless I've missed something, according to the DMG:

No, you're not missing anything. I worded my post a bit strongly. Ability Drain and Energy Drain might as well be the same thing (in regards to DR), in most cases. There are some creatures that drain stats with a touch (don't have my stuff with me right now), but they do so without poison. In those cases, it might as well be treated just like a drain.

There's a big difference between stat draining poison and the touch of an undead creature siphoning off your Strength. I've always seen the latter as a form of energy drain.

 

[SableWyvern]

Kreynolds:

Obviously, we agree in principle.

I think there is a technical flaw in the rules in this matter, though, because it is not implicitly stated that Ability Drain and Energy Drain work in the same way.

I can't think of any creatures off-hand that drain stats on a non-touch attack, but there may be, or may come to be. Thus technically, as the rules stand, such a creature (one that causes Ability Drain with a non-touch attack) may be thwarted by DR, even though this wouldn't have been the intent.

 

[kreynolds]

Obviously, we agree in principle.

Yup.

I can't think of any creatures off-hand that drain stats on a non-touch attack, but there may be, or may come to be.

I can't think of any either. More than likely, the reason Ability Drain wasn't implicitly mentioned under DR is because, like you said, those types of attacks generally require a touch attack to deliver.

 

[Macbrea]

The Allip has an ability to drain wisdom off a non touch attack. Its touch also drains wisdom.


Attacks: Incorporeal touch +3 melee
Damage: Incorporeal touch 1d4 permanent Wisdom drain

Madness (Su): Anyone targeting the allip with a mind-control or telepathic ability makes direct contact with its tortured mind and takes 1d4 points of temporary Wisdom damage.

 

[SableWyvern]

Madness (Su): Anyone targeting the allip with a mind-control or telepathic ability makes direct contact with its tortured mind and takes 1d4 points of temporary Wisdom damage.

Well, I'm hoping that no-one could possibly contemplate that DR would help against that.

By non-touch attack, I meant a normal melee or missile attack.

 

[hong]

Madness (Su): Anyone targeting the allip with a mind-control or telepathic ability makes direct contact with its tortured mind and takes 1d4 points of temporary Wisdom damage.

How does this count as an "attack", as the word is normally used in 3E?

 

[Bobbystopholes]

A vampire's slam does level drain. This is a regular attack, I believe. Is this stopped by DR?

 

[SableWyvern]

Check the quote in one of my earlier posts.

Energy Drain is specifically not affected by DR (regardless of whether or not it accompanies normal damage or how it is otherwise inflicted).

IOW, No.

Edit: to make it easy, here's the quote again, from the DMG p74

Damage reduction does not negate touch attacks, energy damage dealt along with an attack (such as fire damage from a fire elemental), or energy drains.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

A vampire's slam does level drain. This is a regular attack, I believe. Is this stopped by DR?

DR will not stop the energy drain. Further, vampires have a DR of 15/+1, so only DR of x/+2 will affect their slam damage.

 

[Artoomis]

This may help:

From the offical FAQ

Whenever damage reduction from any source
completely negates the damage from an attack, it also
negates most special effects that accompany the attack,
such as injury type poison (which is what a scorpion has),
monk's stunning, and injury-type disease. Damage
reduction does not negate touch attacks, energy damage
dealt along with an attack (such as fire damage from a
fire elemental), or energy drains. Nor does it affect
poisons or diseases delivered by inhalation, ingestion, or
contact. See the section on damage reduction in Chapter 3
of the DUNGEON MASTER's Guide for more details.

I hope this clears up any questions on this topic.