Damage saves: Too deadly?

[Gundark]

Been looking at putting damage saves into my game. I'm concerned that they are a little too deadly? Is this the case? Please let me know.

 

[the Jester]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'damage saves'- are you talking about saves vs. death from massive damage? I've seen two pcs die from that in about, oh, 150 or 200 games. So I'd say that they are fine.

If you're talking about something else, I am without clue.

 

[sukael]

I think he's talking about the damage save system used in Mutants and Masterminds and also detailed out in Unearthed Arcana. Right?

 

[WayneLigon]

Do you mean a Blue Rose/True20/Mutants & Masterminds-type Toughness/Damage save? You could, but you'd need to look at other changes you might need to make in the system. Using a Damage Save instead of hit points means you generally are going to have shorter combats. It means a lucky roll can put you down in one blow, too.

 

[Samurai]

Damage saves require some sort of "Hero Point" system to go with it. MnM heroes don't usually fall on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc failed save... they spend a Hero Point to reroll it. In 1e, the reroll cannot be below 10... any result under 10 is automatically raised to a 10. In 2e, any result under a 10 gets a +10 bonus, meaning your roll will always vary between 10-20, with 2 chances each of rolling 11-19.

This mechanic (or something like it, if you prefer) is what prevents the Damage Save system from being overly deadly, and is necessary and integral to the system. The number of Hero Points should increase as the hero's level rises.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Are you trying the make the game a little deadlier (ala Grim Tales), or streamline combat?

 

[Gundark]

Are you trying the make the game a little deadlier (ala Grim Tales), or streamline combat?

Yes I am talking about damage saves from M&M, True 20, and UA. I was looking at this system because I was looking for faster combats. I bought true 20 and was planning to convert the combat to d20 as it looked easy to do. AS I was working on it I noticed that it appears that combat is too deadly for the PCs. Anyhow Samuri gave some kind of suggestion. Sorry I wasn't clearer. Anyhow have any XP with Damage saves? and how well they work? What have you done ot make them work?

 

[coyote6]

As Samurai said -- Hero/Conviction/Luck/whatever points help a lot. It will save a character from being killed by a single bad roll.

 

[theRogueRooster]

As Samurai said -- Hero/Conviction/Luck/whatever points help a lot. It will save a character from being killed by a single bad roll.

Yeah, Conviction will help you out of a tactical mistake, but unlike characters with hitpoints, you can't expect to wade through a swarm of 100 goblins, even at high levels. And that's just how I like it.

I use True20 in a campaign I run with my wife. I've found combat to be a lot faster and more enjoyable with the damage save. Throw in the Minion rules and minor encounters practically whiz by.

-tRR

 

[swrushing]

Anyhow have any XP with Damage saves? and how well they work? What have you done ot make them work?

Experience?
I have run two MnM games, using two different scales for damage saves and converted d20 stargate to damage save with its own values. The MnM games ran for 1 year and 15 months respectively and the stargate game has run for almost two years now. All three were very successful, judging by what my players said at least.

I will be using true 20 for a fantasy campaign "wagiontrain" campaign next year.

When you use a damage save system you can EASILY customize its deadliness level to suit your needs.

The three dials you want to look at to fine tune it are:
1. The damage save results itself. how many different stages of damage and how big is the range between scratched and out? In the stargate game, i wanted more detail than in my supers game. I will post the one i used for nstagate later.

2. the relative damage vs protection levels along with the base DC sets the "lethality per hit." For supers, i don't mind a "typical even result" being able to run from OK to stunned. For stargate, i wanted an even result to range from hurt to "mission kill"

3. the number of hero points, how often they are gained AND whether a reroll has minimum 10 or just take the best of 2. H

Play with the numbers of these three with sample characters and weapons and you can quickly set the lethality, with hero points equating to endurance and longecity more or less and the first two setting the "fear of a shot."

In stargate the damage save i used and found to work well, after a few tweaks this was my fave, was:

Made the save: not hurt but take a -2 unfavorable circumstance penalty for one round because getting hit is distracting.
failed by 1-4: rattled: lose half action from next action (and take the -2 above)
failed by 5-8: dazed: lose next action but defend normally
failed by 9-12: stunned for one round and knocked/falls prone
failed by 13-16 scene kill: your character is knocked out or otherwise disabled for the scene (aka unlucky 13.) medical attention can get you up afterward (but you are going to remain at about rattled until you heal fully)
failed by 17 or more: mission kill: out for a long while, next time you see things will be in medlab. This could be deadly by end of scene if not treated immediately. treat as dazed at best until healed.

hero pts allow rerolls but not minimum 10.
hero pts allow you to DELAY the onset of a damage level for one round, for a last ditch going down shooting.

I will likely use something very similar for my Wagontrain game instead of the one they use.

honestly my experience with supers, street level supers, and agents games using three different scales is with a little prep work you can tailor the ds system to whatever level of lethality you wish.