Damage Variant

[furashgf]

Rather than recreate what someone more skilled than I has already done, I was hoping that someone had already created a house rule that handled OD&D damage with the following assumptions:
- armor reduces damage, it does not make you harder to hit. In fact, it may make you easier to hit because you're less dexterous
- hit points, for 99% of creatures, are a mix of your actual physical body structure and their endurance/ability/etc. Your constitution has a significant bearing on how much of the hit points are physical body
- the portion of hit points that represent endurance/ability/etc. come back very rapidly
- the portion of hit points that represent your physical body come back slowly, healing at a normal rate without magical healing or other assistance
- when you take physical body damage, there's a chance that you'll get a permanent consequence - something flavorful with at best a minor disadvantage (e.g., limp with slowed pace, cool scar)
Thank you in advance for any information.

 

[Dandu]

The Unearthed Arcana (relevant parts available on the d20 SRD) contains an armor as DR variant. I think it causes players to take more damage as the DR provided isn't enough to compensate for the lack of AC, though, so I'd be cautious about using it as is.

 

[Tovec]

I agree with you Dandu, the UA rules are a poor substitute in the system to try and create a more "realistic" form.

Does anyone have info on the original OD&D rules? I'm sure if we can find the originals we could approximate their conversion to a 3.5 setting.

 

[Aus_Snow]

- armor reduces damage, it does not make you harder to hit. In fact, it may make you easier to hit because you're less dexterous

You could try translating the forementioned d20 variant rules to OD&D. I'd be careful with DR amounts, however, as damage just isn't as high in that game. So I'd look at toning those down. Hm, by the way, do you actually mean OD&D, or BD&D instead?

The general idea there is sound enough, I think. A mixture of deflecting blows and partially absorbing them makes a certain amount of sense, for armour.

- hit points, for 99% of creatures, are a mix of your actual physical body structure and their endurance/ability/etc. Your constitution has a significant bearing on how much of the hit points are physical body
- the portion of hit points that represent endurance/ability/etc. come back very rapidly
- the portion of hit points that represent your physical body come back slowly, healing at a normal rate without magical healing or other assistance

This sounds quite a bit like Vitality/Wound Points, another d20 variant rule. Of course, adjust numbers to suit. Downwards again - big time!

- when you take physical body damage, there's a chance that you'll get a permanent consequence - something flavorful with at best a minor disadvantage (e.g., limp with slowed pace, cool scar)

You could simply have your basic stats (Str, Int, Wis, Con, Dex, Cha) as things that can be reduced by a point or so, on occasion. Presumably, there'd be some way of restoring said loss, though "autofire magic" might be a less than desirable fix here. Perhaps you could also throw movement (and maybe a couple of other things) into the mix, on a chart or what have you. Roll, when a certain (small!) chance comes up, and see what is damaged. You might also think about allowing Fate Points/Action Points/Conviction/whatever - as mentioned in the other thread - to counteract such rolls, so that lasting damage is not done. Until they run out of these, of course...

Just off the top of my head.

 

[BriarMonkey]

... In fact, it may make you easier to hit because you're less dexterous...

I've looked at the role of armor a few times in the past, and in so doing did some research. One of the most telling things I found was a short series on The History Channel, of which I can't recall the name anymore, where a medieval arms expert sought to enlighten the modern world on how things worked back then. This covered things such as jousting, the crossbow, insert gobs of other bits, and armor.

The show on armor was enlightening. They had various people in various forms of armor, even up to the "plate mail" version (they didn't include the jousting armor - that was in the jousting show). The common thread - if you were trained in the wearing and use of the armor, you were no less agile. These warriors could get up, roll around, navigate obstacles, and do whatever else was needed of them.

The caveat of course, was that they were wearing properly fitted armor, and that they were trained.

However, what did suffer was endurance. Even in good shape, you can only fight effectively for so long wearing an iron suit.

In D&D terms, we have proficiency to demonstrate training; we have a maximum Dex penalty to demonstrate the idea that you are hampered more by armor (which isn't really accurate); we have penalties if you sleep in heavier armor (sorta nods to endurance); we have arcane casting penalties (again a bit off the mark if you are proficient); and we have times for doning or removing armor. Those are core bits.

Moving toward reality can be done a little, but if it is done too far, then one starts impacting the whole abstraction of the D&D combat environment and trading simplicity for book keeping.

To keep things simple, I agree that armor should have a DR rating. It should both help deflect blows and it should help absorb damage. Deflection is why things like helmets are rounded. With that, the afore mentioned UA's armor rules for DR are not a bad place to start (and is something I will prolly be looking hard at for my next game). Though, you may also want to revist the shield's role in combat as the D&D version is woefully inadequate (but works ok for this level of abstraction).

As to the other bits about HP - that is an area that is often railed over and one that for my purposes, is okay the way it is.

 

[Tovec]

I'm currently working on a bit of a rewrite for the armor and HP rules (along with attacks).

As far as I can approximate from real world history there are a few different forms of "AC" that should exist that are not currently represented.

The first is a parry system, I'm modeling it partially after the Pathfinder Duelist's Parry ability. Basically you spend an attack to block a blow from the attacker instead of letting it hit your armor. There would be sub-rules of which weapons can do it (usually a light weapon or one handed if only using one).

Second is blocking or deflecting. This is typically done with a shield and is your best defense against longer ranged attacks. Very similar to parry in the fact its a dynamic roll against the attack. Shields would be an excellent form for this. All forms of shields sucked in 3e and didn't represent the reality.

The third form is a dodge mechanic, the closest existing in 3.5 is sort of "touch". Basically its the ability to avoid the attack from connecting. This would be the closest to actual AC in my new system. It is what you rely on to not get hit when parry and blocking fail.

The final form is the armor itself. Armor is like damage reduction, with each type providing a different bonus. This is what makes sure you don't die if something gets through. This is not at all going to be similar to "AC" in the traditional sense.

With the above 4 forms of "armor" I'm hoping attacks don't get through and do not hit your HP. With that in mind the plan is to then reduce the HP drastically (as fewer things should get through).

Clearly a work in progress but.. Thoughts?

 

[furashgf]

I'd love to see the writeup of your system. I think it would make combat more fun, giving combatants more options.

 

[Rhun]

Has anyone considered doing armor the way the Alternity system handled it...it provided DR, but a variable amount (based on a die roll) to represent the fact that armor had strong points and weak points.