Dammit, Warlord, Warlock, Tiefling, and Dragonborn are growing on me.

[GreatLemur]

So bring it on. If it takes Warlocks and Tieflings to reduce the "dungeonpunk ear-pierced wussie leather boys" that 3.x was so fond of, I'm all for it.

How can someone who knows Warhammer think that piercings and punkery are wussy?

...but dragonborn just wreak of the old "dragons are cool! lets make all kinds of draconic races and creatures!" attitude. I think it dilutes the dragon, and makes it less impressive when you finally meet one.

I know, I know. 3.x was friggin choking on crap like that, and I kinda rolled my eyes over the dragonborn, too. But I do dig reptilian races, and it'll be nice to have a race in the PHB that's less humanoid than your average forehead-putty Star Trek alien. I'm willing to forget about the whole annoying dragon angle and just think of them as lizardy bastards.

 

[roguerouge]

The motivations for Dragonborn will be the same as for dwarves, elves and all other races.

Dwarves and elves and half-orcs all had different motivations and were in conflict because they had distinct and opposing world views. Shoot, warforged have a distinct world view, simply because the question of the meaning of their life was more urgent.

I like the dragon shaman's mechanic. But "kill things and grow my hoard" is a board game motivation, not a narrative motivation.

I'm genuinely puzzled and would love for someone to sell me on what it is that motivates lizardkin, dragon worshippers, dragonborn, whatever...

Perhaps someone who owns a lizard can post their observations of what motivates their pets?

 

[D.Shaffer]

Dragonborn go on adventures for the same reason everyone else does. To kill things and take their stuff.

 

[Derren]

Dwarves and elves and half-orcs all had different motivations and were in conflict because they had distinct and opposing world views.

Nowhere in the D&D rules does it say that elves and dwarves don't like each other. Thats purely an invention of the individual Dm, like all motivations etc. is.

But "kill things and grow my hoard" is a board game motivation, not a narrative motivation.

Dragonborn are not dragons. The only thing we know is that they are in some way related to dragons (might be as distant as the relation dragon<->kobold), they are a true breeding race, not a collection of quaterdragons, and that in the races&Classes Fluff they have (or had) a desert civilization "empire".

I'm genuinely puzzled and would love for someone to sell me on what it is that motivates lizardkin, dragon worshippers, dragonborn, whatever...

Love, hate , revenge, greed, duty, wanderlust, justice, faith,...
Dragonborn would be motivated by the same things the other races are too.

Perhaps someone who owns a lizard can post their observations of what motivates their pets?

You will have a hard time by figuring out what motivates humans by observing monkeys, so why it should work with lizards and dragonborn?

 

[roguerouge]

re: "WotC has no idea what motivates dragon people either, as their description entirely boils down to the pursuit of power, whether you idealize a red dragon, a gold dragon, or a brass one." That's a motivation.

I'll rephrase.

That's a simplistic motivation, as it ignores very real differences between the dragons. It's a red dragon's motivation. The brass dragon is a petulant chatterbox, while the bronzes are more inquisitive and like puzzles, and the coppers are jokers. (All of this is from the MM.) Yet the fluff for the shamans who follow them are exactly the same as for those who follow the scheming and covetous red dragon or the low INT white dragons.

Elves, dwarves, and orcs have a base system of values that are very easy to understand. In order for me to buy into Dragon shamans and dragonborn, I'm going to need a base system of values beyond "I want to grow my hoard."

 

[Derren]

Elves, dwarves, and orcs have a base system of values that are very easy to understand. In order for me to buy into Dragon shamans and dragonborn, I'm going to need a base system of values beyond "I want to grow my hoard."

Why do you keep insisting that the dragonborn are in some way related to dragon shamans and that they don't have a "base system of values" like all other humanoids? Just because they have scales?

And imo saying that for example elves have an (for a human) easy to understand system of values is reducing elves from actually being a different race to humans with pointy ears.
The motivations of an elf can be as mysterious to an human than the one of a dragonborn. Or the motivation of the elf and dragonborn can be crystal clear to a human. It all depends on the DM and player.

 

[Wormwood]

Elves, dwarves, and orcs have a base system of values that are very easy to understand. In order for me to buy into Dragon shamans and dragonborn, I'm going to need a base system of values beyond "I want to grow my hoard."

Gotcha.

Dragonborn, being a brand new race, have yet to be defined. I'm just as curious as you are.

Until Wizards (or our man in Hungary) updates us with some fluff, I think we're all staring at the same blank page.

 

[Gloombunny]

I know, I know. 3.x was friggin choking on crap like that, and I kinda rolled my eyes over the dragonborn, too. But I do dig reptilian races, and it'll be nice to have a race in the PHB that's less humanoid than your average forehead-putty Star Trek alien. I'm willing to forget about the whole annoying dragon angle and just think of them as lizardy bastards.

What makes me happy with dragonborn is that wings and breath weapons are available to them at high levels, but not mandatory. I love lizardmen, and I'm cool with lizardmen who sometimes develop dragon traits, because I think of dragons as just overdeveloped lizards anyway.

 

[roguerouge]

Love, hate , revenge, greed, duty, wanderlust, justice, faith,...
Dragonborn would be motivated by the same things the other races are too.

I certainly agree. But would you agree that those individual motivations are influenced by the culture of these races, just as a French person's motivations will be influenced by French culture in ways that differ from how a German or a Zimbabwean would be? I have a problem with understanding lizardfolk/dragon shaman/dragonborn culture, despite the fact that the game's been trying to construct one ever since the first edition modules. I don't have that problem understanding how culture influences elves/dwarves/orcs.

Do you at least get what I'm saying, even if you don't agree with me and want to convert me to the awesomeness of the lizardfolk/dragonborn way?

I have trouble seeing the dragonborn as a living culture that I can role play because I've had the exact same trouble with the cultures of similar creatures in third, second, and first edition. If I can't grok a living culture, then it's just a collection of game mechanics which is obviously inferior to a race that works as a culture and as a collection of game mechanics.

 

[Commonblade]

Going off the implied setting, this is the feeling I am getting from the races.

Dragonborn are motivated by a need to reclaim their past glory.

Elves are motivated by a need to preserve and cherish life around them.

Eladrin are motivated by a search for the secrets of the universe.

Dwarves are motivated by a need for defense of their homes and family.

Humans are motivated in making a future for themselves.

Halflings are motivated in making sure they survive.

Tieflings are motivated by a need for personal improvement.