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Dammnation

I don't see many of the D&D hells as places of punishment.

They're horrid and nasty, sure, but if you go to one, you become a demon or a devil, and horrid and nasty things don't matter to you because you're one of them.

They're horrid and nasty to outsiders, but so are Evil people. ;)

Going to the evil places of rest in D&D gives you power. Going to the good places of rest in D&D generally gives you peace. Some people want to rest when they die, some people want to see how powerful they can get in the afterlife. ;)
 

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Myself I think you have Banes real off. He will put you to work yes but it''s not his job to torment you. He is about order and power and he really doesn not care how he gets it. Clergy I are well traind souls already, so they would get managent type jobs. Common worshipers , well he needs workers...he needs souls to twist , they are mere items things to be used nothing more. If they prove useful then good he'll use them give them power make them his tools. Sure he may torment souls, twist them or sometimes lie. However Bane is not a good of decit, Bane brings order and power to those that want it. He is a tyrant not a devil

I'm aware of what Bane's schtick is. :) Though I expect he would punish souls who have failed him, that's neither here nor there as I believe you've misunderstood the intent behind my final paragraph.

The OP stated that in his view the Good gods reward while Evil gods punish. Since my first two paragraphs were explanations that don't perfectly fit within that paradigm, my final paragraph offered a (IMO) reasonable justification that leaves the OP's concept intact.

Admittedly, it does require the DM to play the deities composing the evil pantheon a bit more loosely, but it's rather difficult to sell Eternal Torment. Either the gods of evil are selling something else entirely, or they're selling Eternal Torment packaged as something else.
 


The label is somehow appropriate...

Cheers, -- N
 

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So what is it exactly that the dark gods offer that lures people into following them? It's not like evil clerics get more power or cheaper XP than good ones do.

That's an interesting question that I had never really considered. You're absolutely right in stating that worshipping an evil god in D&D provides a character with no immediate advantage over worshipping a good god. Sure, you may be able to obtain lichdom or become a demon someday, but all of that stuff happens later.

Magic (i.e., instantaneous power) is played up as what evil gods offer as an enticement to worship them in the vast majority of Swords & Sorcery fiction. Evil gods in D&D, by default, lack that kind of enticement as worshipping any god (or just studying hard) grants you instantaneous power. In D&D, magic isn't at all rare, so the promise of magic alone doesn't make a very good carrot on a stick.

In this vein, I've thought about allowing evil clerics and magi access to additional spells from Spell Law (Rolemaster) as many of the magics therein are considerably more foul or harmful than spells listed in any edition of D&D (things like Soul Destruction and Dark Contacts come to mind, for instance).
 
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It's a kind of evil pyramid scheme. The most powerful/successful/pleasing mortal worshippers get to spend their afterlife tormenting those who failed their dark masters. They also get to lord it over those poor souls who were evil but did not actively worship the powers of evil.
 

My answer to why people worship evil gods over good ones is "code of conduct".

You want power from Torm? Ok, just be forthright and true in all that you do. Be noble and bold and dutiful. Sacrifice, work hard, and defend the weak. Failing to act nobly will result in loss of your spells.

You want power from Mask? Go steal stuff. Failure to steal stuff will result in loss of your spells.

You want power from Gruumsh? Go kill, loot and pillage. If others have things you want, just take them.

And so on.

The point is not that evil gods entice through spells while good gods do not. The point is that you can "take the easy road" with the evil gods...just do the selfish and wicked things that put you on top and exploit others and you'll get rewarded! Good gods? You have to work hard and serve humanity. Chump. ;)
 

actually worshipping evil gods, must get you something in this mortal life or i dont think folk would be drawn to them so much.
In your hour of need these naughty deities, or there servants, will heed your call and 'help' you out......the payback is always much 'bigger' than the boon they grant

well, IMO anyway
 

Essentially, you're asking why people get into and stay in abusive relationships. There's a few notable differences about an intimate faith-based relationship as opposed to a physically intimate relationship, but, consider the parallels.

1. Because I deserve it: This works both ways. The selfish narcissist thinks that nothing is more important than what they've convinced themselves they deserve; certainly your pain comes second to their own. On the other hand, those who have been abused survive these relationships by rationalizing that abusive relationships are what they deserve.

2. Because Shar really loves me. It makes me feel special. False, of course, but imagine how seductive that would be with a god, instead of a seductive partner. Especially when they provide you with spells.

3. Because you hope that they will change. While abusers (gods, men, or monsters) will usually promise to change during the honeymoon stage, it is rare for an abuser to change while still in a relationship.

4. While you are not the cause of the abuse, it's less scary if you're to blame, because then, at least, you're in control. So you hope that by acting better or more in line with their demands/commandments, you'll make everything good again.

5. It's not so bad and everybody does it. False, of course, but possibly true to that person's life experience.

6. They draw a link between love and violence. Again, violence begets violence. Its damage gets passed down by generation. People who were abusers were very often abused themselves. This is sad, and worth a paladin's pity, but also damning, as nobody knows better the damage such behavior can do and not everyone who was abused becomes an abuser.

7. Hopelessness: The idea of being happy without your current deity may seem impossible now.

8. Gender or racial ideology. You're falsely made to believe that it's your biological fate to be treated this way as a drow male.

9. Embarrassment and shame often keep people in an abusive relationship, with gods or humans, for quite some time.

10. Financial dependence. All of your professional contacts are with this god. Where else are you going to get spells? Plus, you've made all these enemies. You need those spells. If anyone good finds out about your relationship with this god, they'll drop you socially, attack you, arrest you. Where else are you going to go?

11. You feel you have a lack of supportive relationships. The good guys will never believe you, you fear they'll smite you, and everyone you care about you've alienated or left to be with this all-consuming god.

12. Fear: This all-knowing, extremely powerful god will be ANGRY if I leave.

13. You're in the hands of an angry god, but at least you're not alone.

14. You're loyal. It's your best trait. It's what makes you feel good about everything you've done and you've stayed that way despite everything that has been done to you.

15. GUILT. With gods, we're dealing with world-class manipulators pulling the guilt-trips of a lifetime. Evil deities are world-class sociopaths.

16. Can you say, self-medication? Dependency on drugs or alcohol can play a part in staying in abusive relationships.

Given all of this stuff, please consider the awesome courage that it takes for someone to admit that their life's become unmanageable and their relationship intolerably abusive and to seek change. The miracle isn't that so many people get trapped and stay trapped in their abusive relationships with gods and men. The miracle is that so many people get out.




Source:
http://www.crisisconnectioninc.org/t...hytheystay.htm
 

Interesting points about the abusive relationship.

I think, also, that it is important to remember that the "average joe" pays heed/prays to ALL the gods.

Going to a city late at night? Pray to Mask that you are not robbed.

Going on a sea voyage? Pray to Umberlee not to destroy you.


It's easy for a slippery slope to begin to occur. A sailor might be praying to Umberlee before every voyage...just for a safe voyage at first. But then, since he's already made a habit of prayer to her, there could be a storm. He doesn't pray "save our ship" he prays "save me". Maybe he is offered a choice "take the lifeboat and you'll live...but the ship will sink".

So he abandons his friends to die so he may live.

And then, well, then it's guilt and repayment. He owes umberlee his life. If he wants to remain a sailor, he better tread really nicely with her or he's done for.


I think with evil gods there is also the "getting stuck" in a bad situation component as well.


It can be a really nasty one-two punch. First the evil god sets their horrors on you, and then you owe them if they take those horrors away. Being a god, they can MAKE you pay up, and if they can't for whatever reason, they just bring on the original horror doubly strong.
 

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