Dancey and Tweet on growing the hobby

[mythusmage]

The big problem with this is the same one that TSR had: too many similar books means buyer confusion and paralyzation. If there are four similar books and you don't know which one to buy, you buy none of them.

Scientific American had an article on this recently. You can literally overwhelm the prospective customer with too many choices. What with all the d20 product out there (including the stuff from Wizards) we could be seeing the phenomenon in the RPH.

The convenience store chain AM/PM has an advertising slogan, "Too much good stuff". Which they use in ads showing some schmuck blowing his bankroll by getting everything in sight. It's funny, but that's not how we work.

When faced with 'too much good stuff' we're more apt to say, "stuff it" and go somewhere else. Producing annual editions of the core rules would be another case of, two much good stuff.

And what if the changes weren't just cosmetic?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Scientific American had an article on this recently. You can literally overwhelm the prospective customer with too many choices. What with all the d20 product out there (including the stuff from Wizards) we could be seeing the phenomenon in the RPH.

The phenomenon of customer burnout is also mentioned in Paco Underhill's book Why We Buy.

However, I'm not too concerned about this. They're just talking about genre settings, really.

Look at GURPS and HERO system. Both have a set of basic rules that are published with a base campaign setting. Those rules are then ready to be dropped-'n-dragged into a whole bunch of other RPG genres. HERO is a bit more transportale than GURPS, but both have fantasy, sci-fi, superheroic and cross-genre sourcebooks, just to name a couple. And GURPS may have even more versions of other games than D20 does (though not for long).

Basically, people play the genre they want with the system they prefer. No confusion arises if the product is clearly labled.

Caveat- TSR tried this bit with AMAZING ENGINE, which didn't do well. However, I think that failure was due to business reasons, not because of the game's quality.

 

[Ron]

In relation to Tweet's idea, he is right in noting the importance of art in influencing purchases. My friends keep telling me the try Guardians of Order's Big Eyes, Small Mouth. They keep saying that I'll love the rules which are exactly the kind of stuff I like. If I could only control my stomach and not vomit from disgust every time I see anime art...:\ However, I agree with many posters that it might confuse the prospective buyers. Still, it would be nice to see some different versions of the PHB with different artistic styles. Personally, I prefer the second edition style, but I can live with the current one. I think that Steve Jackson Games tried something similar, releasing an Anime inspired book to their In Nomine line. Check it here.

 

[Greatwyrm]

My friends keep telling me the try Guardians of Order's Big Eyes, Small Mouth. They keep saying that I'll love the rules which are exactly the kind of stuff I like. If I could only control my stomach and not vomit from disgust every time I see anime art...:\

Try the Singy Gamer Edition of their main book. The art is still anime, but there's not nearly as much of it.

 

[William Ronald]

I think the boxed set is a good idea, as it is a good way to introduce new people to gaming at a low cost. I would like to see different art styles used in the core books, as it can be used in the same way as different versions of Monopoly. (It would be important to keep the page numbers the same in different versions.) Alternately, it might be interesting to use different art styles in the same books -- these can represent different interpreptations or even different cultural designs of arms and armor.

 

[Dogbrain]

Look at GURPS and HERO system. Both have a set of basic rules that are published with a base campaign setting. Those rules are then ready to be dropped-'n-dragged into a whole bunch of other RPG genres.

Steve Jackson has never issued multiple copies of GURPS Basic merely with different covers and art (excepting for a limited issue hardcover). That is what Tweet advocated. The genre-specific stuff is in the genre-specific books.

 

[Dogbrain]

I think that Steve Jackson Games tried something similar, releasing an Anime inspired book to their In Nomine line. Check it here.

But SJG didn't completely re-issue the In Nomine line or basic rules with an anime "theme"--very different.

 

[WizarDru]

Steve Jackson has never issued multiple copies of GURPS Basic merely with different covers and art (excepting for a limited issue hardcover). That is what Tweet advocated. The genre-specific stuff is in the genre-specific books.

Well, to be pedantic, we don't know exactly what Tweet advocated, merely what Dancey says he advocated. More specifically, according to Dancey, he didn't advocated any genre-specific stuff at all, merely a change in the art style, to wit:

"as a side note, Johnathan Tweet has outlined a plan that I think could workably be used to potentially increase core book sales without a huge design overhead. His idea was to make an annual "theme" for D&D. The obvious example is "anime". The "Anime D&D" books would use all new Anime art, Anime iconic characters, etc. but would use the 3.5 game rules virtually unchanged."

In other words, change Regdar to Gatsu and Mialee to Deedelit, and change the art appropriately, but little else. There wouldn't be separate rules for each setting, but just a different design style of presentation. I think Tweet is smart enough not to start changing the layout so dramatically that the content of page 116 is different from the original version to the anime version, otherwise we have the situation that Piratecat mentioned. Flavor text may change, but both continue to use the same ruleset.

I see how it could work, but I'm not sure that it would work.

As for GURPS, with over a hundred genre setting books to it's credit over the years, I think d20 is still hard-pressed to catch it, yet. Forty different fantasy settings is not the same thing as having Transhuman Space, Madlands, Goblins, Steampunk, Japan, Russia and so on. And GURPS operates under a different design paradigm, so I don't think it's an apples-to-apples comparison....but that's really another discussion, entirely.

 

[Umbran]

Well, to be pedantic, we don't know exactly what Tweet advocated, merely what Dancey says he advocated. More specifically, according to Dancey, he didn't advocated any genre-specific stuff at all, merely a change in the art style...

If you change the cover art, or even notably alter the internal layout, you'll still confuse the new customer. If there are four things on the shelf labelled "PHB", but they all look different, anyone who doesn't know beforehand that they all contain the same material is going to wonder.

Thus, such themed presentations might be good for getting an avid gamer with cash to burn to buy a second (or third) copy of the PHB, it wil get in the way of Newbie Johnny trying to figure out what this whole D&D thing is about. Good for resale to old customers, not so good for growing your customer base.

 

[WizarDru]

If you change the cover art, or even notably alter the internal layout, you'll still confuse the new customer. If there are four things on the shelf labelled "PHB", but they all look different, anyone who doesn't know beforehand that they all contain the same material is going to wonder.

The more I think about it, the more I agree. I really don't think it's a good idea, except maybe as 'collector editions' for the core market, as you mention. Fragmentation of the market == BAD. Confusing new customers == ALSO BAD.