Dancey v. Mearls?

[AllisterH]

Because we keep begging for retreads of our old favorites?

It isn't like RPGs are the only place where we see lots of remakes and sequels. I would expect the same dynamic to apply here - so long as we continue to buy based on an old name, we give them a disincentive to take risks.

Especially THIS past year...how many freaking "80s" movies got made (I'm including things like Hot Tub Time Machine and Stallone's "The Expendables").

Seriously..when the Expendables pretty much demolished a relatively fresh/new property like Scott Pilgrim vs the World, the power of nostalgia can NOT be ignored...

 

[jasin]

So why is it that there isn't effort and creative energy going into 'new' worlds any more? Some years ago I remember discussions on ENworld where fluff was decried and crunch lauded (the very names chosen reflect the bias amongst the people starting the debate!) and people said "fluff is easy, crunch is hard". It turns out that good, world-building fluff isn't actually so easy after all. Who'd have thought that genuine creativity is difficult, eh?

As someone who used the argument you quote, I think it's largely because art, and taste, and Zeitgeist, are (among other things) a reaction to what came before.

In the early days of 3E, when we were buried under 2E's multitude of settings and wonky mechanics, fluff was easy (even good fluff), and (good) crunch was hard, and desirable, because we were starved for it.

After ten years of 3E's focus on crunch, and 4E kicking that focus into overdrive, we're starved for quality world-building.

 

[Hussar]

Umm, let's look at history for a second.

How many new settings did we get in the first two years of 1e? Greyhawk wasn't new, it was in OD&D. Dragonlance was a few years away. Oriental Adventures maybe?

How many new settings did we get in the first two years of Basic/Expert? Mystara and...?

How many new settings did we get in the first two years of 2e? Did we get any? Dragonlance and FR were both 1e settings first. How long was it before we started getting lots of new settings?

How many new settings did we get in the first two years of 3e? Not counting 3pp of course, 'cos if you count those, there's a bajillion. But, out of WOTC? Did we get any?

So, how can we really blame 4e for doing the exact same thing whoever's been helming D&D has done for the past 30 years? It takes some time to take the flagship settings into the new edition. So, 4e, we've updated Eberron, FR, and done one Retread setting. Isn't Nentir Vale the next setting due out? So, three years before an orgininal setting.

Seems pretty par for the course.

 

[Plane Sailing]

So, how can we really blame 4e

I think that eyebeams and I were thinking of settings under the whole WotC tenure (where Eberron has been the only novel one), not just the two years of 4e.

Now, it might be that Nentir Vale etc will become a full setting in itself, embracing the points of light principle, I've not been keeping up to date on that front.

It is worth bearing in mind that Eberron was the chosen one of the top 3 winners in the setting search. Presumably they have two other pretty good options which could be taken further, not to mention hundreds of one-page treatments which probably include a range of good small campaign settings.

Personally I often bought campaign settings not to run the setting but to mine for useful stuff I could incorporate into my own homebrew.

 

[vagabundo]

I think that eyebeams and I were thinking of settings under the whole WotC tenure (where Eberron has been the only novel one), not just the two years of 4e.

Now, it might be that Nentir Vale etc will become a full setting in itself, embracing the points of light principle, I've not been keeping up to date on that front.

It is worth bearing in mind that Eberron was the chosen one of the top 3 winners in the setting search. Presumably they have two other pretty good options which could be taken further, not to mention hundreds of one-page treatments which probably include a range of good small campaign settings.

Personally I often bought campaign settings not to run the setting but to mine for useful stuff I could incorporate into my own homebrew.

I've heard rumours that those two setting had been pillaged for ideas and are shells of their former selves...

 

[Neonchameleon]

I think that eyebeams and I were thinking of settings under the whole WotC tenure (where Eberron has been the only novel one), not just the two years of 4e.

Now, it might be that Nentir Vale etc will become a full setting in itself, embracing the points of light principle, I've not been keeping up to date on that front.

Nentir Vale gazeteer. Due out next year. Also almost all the fluff in [Foo] power belongs to that setting.

It is worth bearing in mind that Eberron was the chosen one of the top 3 winners in the setting search.

I've heard they've been thoroughly looted. And would have done the same had I been WoTC.

Personally I often bought campaign settings not to run the setting but to mine for useful stuff I could incorporate into my own homebrew.

And that's why I insist that to be useful a setting should expand what's doable with the game. Well that, and that I use normal history books the same way.

 

[ggroy]

How many new settings did we get in the first two years of 2e? Did we get any? Dragonlance and FR were both 1e settings first. How long was it before we started getting lots of new settings?

Dragonlance - 1984
Oriental Adventures - 1985
Forgotten Realms - 1987

Spelljammer - 1989
Ravenloft - 1990
Dark Sun - 1991

Al-Qadim - 1992
Planescape - 1994
Birthright - 1995
Jakandor - 1998

Dungeons & Dragons
Dungeons & Dragons campaign settings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ggroy]

Nentir Vale gazeteer. Due out next year.

The "Nentir Vale Gazetteer" listing has been removed from both amazon.com and WotC's online catalog. (It was originally suppose to be released in February 2011).

 

[UHF]

I find all this talk about settings interesting.

Original D&D was a setting based on Lord Of the Rings and Elric. Fantasy has moved considerably beyond that since then, and frankly, I'm happy with the new de-contented versions of WOTC settings. It frees me up to run the kind of adventure I want. I really don't see the downside to Dancey's claim that WOTC is selling de-contented material. The fact of the matter is that most of that fluff never hits your player's ears.

Buuuutt... I'm really not happy about what they did to Forgotten Realms.


Of all the settings I've read, I like Green Ronin's Freeport the best. Its a dense urban environment, but it was written in such a way that I can pull adventure after adventure off of each page.

 

[Henry]

Some years ago I remember discussions on ENworld where fluff was decried and crunch lauded (the very names chosen reflect the bias amongst the people starting the debate!)

Didn't Sean Reynolds kick-start the whole fluff and crunch thing with his "Donut Cores and Forgotten Rums" spiel in 2001? The irony is he was very "pro-fluff" at the time, despite the whole "A MAGIC WEAPON DOESN"T USE ENCHANTMENTS!!!" thing.