Dark Sun, 4th Edition

[Klaus]

What does that have to do with anything?

All fey creatures were killed in the cleansing wars or whatever (official timeline). Aside from that, they're whimsical forest monsters that don't have any place in a brutal setting. And aside from that, DS doesn't use any standard D&D monsters aside from some basic undead. Like I said, it's alien, in a post-apocalyptic way. All the "old" monsters died off or survived via favorable mutations (psionics).

So what's the 4e paladin then? The pregen sure looked like a Good holy warrior to me. Paladins are holy knights in shining armor with a chilvaric-style code of conduct. DS has no holiness, no knights, no shining armor, and no chilvary.

The pregen 4E paladin had no Code of Conduct.

And in 4E paladins can have any alignment, so you can certainly have LE, CE and NE paladins serving as templars of the Sorcerer-Kings.

 

[Crothian]

Another thing to consider is that Dark Sun never played under the same rules. It had different races with different mechanics. It had different character generation, and many different assumptions from regular D&D. It was practically another version of the game.

I imagine with 4e Wizards are going to want all the settings they make for it playing under the same basic rules.

 

[Dausuul]

What does that have to do with anything?

All fey creatures were killed in the cleansing wars or whatever (official timeline).

Cleansing wars? What cleansing wars? There is no official timeline.

(In other words, I continue to advocate dumping everything except the original boxed set. Doesn't look like I'm alone in that, either. Dark Sun may have set the record for fastest shark jump in history.)

Aside from that, they're whimsical forest monsters that don't have any place in a brutal setting.

Whimsical forest monsters? Tell that to the new dryad. Or the fomorians. Or the shadar-kai. I'm not seeing a lot of whimsy here.

And aside from that, DS doesn't use any standard D&D monsters aside from some basic undead. Like I said, it's alien, in a post-apocalyptic way. All the "old" monsters died off or survived via favorable mutations (psionics).

See, this is what I mean by "window dressing." There's no reason Dark Sun can't use the standard D&D monsters, as long as those monsters can fit into the desolate wasteland setting (or the surviving jungle areas like the Ringing Mountains). It just didn't use such monsters in its last incarnation.

Any remake of Dark Sun is going to be a remake, not an exact replica. If you want an exact replica, just buy the old Dark Sun books on eBay. To me, at least, the important thing is to get the flavor and the feel of the world right; minor details can go by the wayside.

If the new Dark Sun comes with a list of deities, standard dragons in place of the Dragon of Tyr, and no defiling magic, I'll be up in arms. But if it happens to contain a few hobgoblins? Meh. Whatever.

So what's the 4e paladin then? The pregen sure looked like a Good holy warrior to me. Paladins are holy knights in shining armor with a chilvaric-style code of conduct. DS has no holiness, no knights, no shining armor, and no chilvary.

We've been told that 4E will accommodate paladins of Asmodeus. As far as I can tell, a paladin in 4E is a divine warrior; not necessarily a lawful or good one, though the pregen paladin fills the traditional role. This fits with the general theme of stripping out alignment-based mechanics from the game.

 

[Khaalis]

Another thing to consider is that Dark Sun never played under the same rules. It had different races with different mechanics. It had different character generation, and many different assumptions from regular D&D. It was practically another version of the game.

I imagine with 4e Wizards are going to want all the settings they make for it playing under the same basic rules.

The counterpoint to this is that if 4E ends up being even half as flexible as they claim it will be, all of this can be done to make the world feel different while actually staying inside the given toolbox. They are already taking this step with FR by introducing a campaign specific class (spellsword) and the Drow as detailed player race. Also in Eberron with Warforged, Changelings, Artificers, etc. From what I have seen so far 4E I believe, would actually be better fit to the concepts of Darksun than 2E every did. They have also specifically stated that the system's new core math makes it incredibly simple to do things such as do away with heavy armors (also fitting the Darksun concept). I honestly don't think it would be all that difficult to create a 4E Darksun. The hardest part, IMHO, would be getting the feel of Preserver's and Defiler's powers correct.
JMHO. YMMV.

 

[Acid_crash]

I voted yes...and I don't think of it as a rehash but more as bringing an old setting in for a new generation of gamers.

I bet a whole lot of gamers out there have never seen the Dark Sun setting, and I am sure a hell of a lot of them will think that it's a new campaign setting, until they are told differently. Not every gamer has played for twenty years, or even ten years, and Dark Sun died quiet a while ago.

Not everyone remembers it.

 

[Dausuul]

The hardest part, IMHO, would be getting the feel of Preserver's and Defiler's powers correct.

My suggestion would be:

Preserver = wizard.
Defiler = warlock with a new type of pact ("life pact" or something).

2E's approach of making preservers and defilers mirror images of each other isn't likely to hold up in 4E, but I don't think that's a bad thing. Frankly, the 2E solution struck me as a bit lazy. Warlocks, whose magic has been described in Races and Classes as "not necessarily evil, but [it] sure is mean*," seem ideally suited to take the role of the arcanist who chooses the quick and dirty path to power.

*Slightly paraphrased, I don't have the book handy right now.

 

[med stud]

The pregen 4E paladin had no Code of Conduct.

And in 4E paladins can have any alignment, so you can certainly have LE, CE and NE paladins serving as templars of the Sorcerer-Kings.

Oooh, I didn't think of that! Yeah, paladins as templars would be a very nice fit! At least thematically.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Hollow World maybe, IMO, but Mystara has all these sweeping empires – Alphatia, Glantri etc.

Just because some nations has borders drawn on a map doesn't mean that everywhere within the borders is safe. Besides, no one said an entire planet needed to be PoL for a setting to fit. End even in those empires, one wasn't safe outside of cities.

I could pick a nit over Glantri being a "sweeping empire", what, being up in a few alpine valleys and all. But the reality of Mystara was that in the Known World, outside of the cities and villages, life was dangerous.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

I voted no. But then Dark Sun is my least favorite setting, aside from Planescape (which I loathe with the fury of 1000 suns.)

A one shot, or something would be okay by me though.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Maybe I'm out in left field, here, but I think 4e will be much less reluctant to break the core gospel than 3e was.

I could easily see a 4e DS being kind of like Arcana Evolved was for 3e: re-written from the ground up with a new implied setting.

Indeed, I think tthat with WotC's "One setting per year" plan, they will HAVE to break the core gospel over and over again.

I don't think 4e will be too closely tied to its own initial selection of races and classes and monsters.

So I think a 4e Dark Sun, with brand new classes and heavily mutated races and a whole new menagerie....would be the path they would take.

I think the DS treatment in 3e suffered from the idea of the core gospel, but also from the format. You just can't do a world as alien as Dark Sun right in 75-100 pages. You need to do what Arcana Evolved did and re-write it from the ground up.

And I think 4e will be very conducive to doing that.