D&D 4E Dark Sun Conversion to 4E

[The Dude]

How about giving wizards the option of learning the following power:

PRESERVER SPELLCASTING
At Will - Arcane
Minor - Utility, Personal
Effect: If you use this power in the same round as an arcane spell, no vegetation is turned to ash during your casting.

This power would give wizards an option at a small cost that does not affect the mechanics' numbers and without the waste of a feat or locking the wizard into a choice at first level.

 

[Spatula]

Preservers were not common, it wasn't easy, and that extra life force had to come from somewhere. Defilers are the default wizards, and they are *hated*.

They shouldn't recieve extra power, preservers should be nerfed, or pay from their own HP pools.

Wizards are rare in DS, are they not? (I've read books, played the PC Game, but never a DND version)

The choice to play a wizard remains to the players, but there is an OC to pay.

Ok, so why play a wizard, when you are weaker than the rest of the party, and have to live in constant fear of being discovered & killed? That enforces scarcity but it's certainly not fun for someone that wants to play a wizard.

In 2e preservers were exactly like regular Mages. Defilers were Mages with a faster XP table, which didn't quite fit the background (in that preservers could defile if they chose to) but mechanics never were 2e's strong suit.

 

[Elphilm]

Defiling could add extra die of the appropriate type on damage rolls with spells (where applicable). Perhaps something like one extra die at Heroic levels, two at Paragon levels, and three (or even four) at Epic levels. This would make defilers truly heavy hitters, and defiling a tempting option in a desperate situation.

Edit: A further thought occurs... The new Turn Undead power deals radiant damage to undead in a burst centered around the cleric. Similarly, defilers could deal a certain amount of necrotic damage within a burst in order to fuel their spells, as per Silverblade's suggestion. If there are no living creatures or plants within the burst, you cannot defile.

 

[Graf]

How about giving wizards the option of learning the following power:

PRESERVER SPELLCASTING
At Will - Arcane
Minor - Utility, Personal
Effect: If you use this power in the same round as an arcane spell, no vegetation is turned to ash during your casting.

This power would give wizards an option at a small cost that does not affect the mechanics' numbers and without the waste of a feat or locking the wizard into a choice at first level.

Now this is brilliant.
It accurately provides a method to show the minor (but measurable) additional effort the preserver has to expend to avoid frying things.

Since minor actions are part of game balance it would probably have some sort of unexpected repurcussions but it seems very close to the flavor of the setting to me.

You could always take "deft preserver" as a feat to turn the minor action into an at-will action.

 

[vagabundo]

I was thinking about Preservers being the default and Defilers getting bonuses to hit and damage or possibly auto meta-magic feats (will have to see the full ruleset to decide).

If a PC caster Defiles then there will be a chance (1 on a d6??) he will pick up a taint using the rules here: D20 Taints.

If I remember correctly, you can preserve again by a Druid casting atonement. This would remove the Taint. Possibly the Taint would manifest physically.

 

[Khaalis]

I love the idea of creating a 4E viable ENWorld Community Darksun Player's Guide. However, any attempt to start talking "mechanics" at any level, at this stage is pointless. I would suggest concentrating first on the global concepts of flavor as pertains to the new 4E and its assumptions. Once we actually have gooks in hand in a few weeks, then we can start tossing around ideas for specific mechanics like Defiling vs. Preserving. IMHO anything discussed now relating to specific mechanics is basically wasted breath (or typing as the case may be). JMHO.

 

[Vayden]

Hmm - I like the suggestion to have Dragonborn replace something other than Half-Giants. I wouldn't make Half-Giants or Thri-keen PC races, but a half-giant seems like a pretty awesome NPC opponent that it would be a shame to lose.

I like the Tieflings and the Warlocks from Da's OP. Makes sense to me.

It'll depend on what clerics end up looking like in the PHB, but elemental clerics do seem a bit odd. Maybe celestial objects of some sort. Paladins I would say can draw their powers from either the cleric source or the Sorceror-King - that way, even if you know someone's a Templar, you don't know if they're the Warlock kind or the Paladin kind, so you can't prepare for them as well.

I like the Preserver "spend a minor action to avoid doing damage" mechanic - it seems to reflect the "extra care taken", along with the difficulty of being a preserver, without being TOO costly. I wouldn't actually make "preserver" or "defiler" something that's defined by a mechanics choice though. Just say every Wizard has the option to use his magic in Preserver fashion - those who always do so (or at least who are never seen defiling) are known as Preservers - those who are seen Defiling (which happens whenever you don't spend the minor action per the mechanic in OP) are known as Defilers.

I also like both ideas for psionics - replicating magic item powers and/or giving you the ability to cherry-pick another class's at-will power as an encounter power every X levels. Either one could work well, depending on what we see when the books come out.

 

[vagabundo]

I love the idea of creating a 4E viable ENWorld Community Darksun Player's Guide. However, any attempt to start talking "mechanics" at any level, at this stage is pointless. I would suggest concentrating first on the global concepts of flavor as pertains to the new 4E and its assumptions. Once we actually have gooks in hand in a few weeks, then we can start tossing around ideas for specific mechanics like Defiling vs. Preserving. IMHO anything discussed now relating to specific mechanics is basically wasted breath (or typing as the case may be). JMHO.

It would need to stay loose though. Give a few fully fleshed out options for doing the defiler/preserver mechanics. Give suggestions on how to integrate the default classes and races. I doubt all EWers could agree on one method, nothing fills up a thread faster than converting defiling/preserving magic from DS.


ASIDE:

The preserver learns to tap magical energies in such a way as to minimize or even cancel his destruction through balance and in-depth study, but progress as a wizard is very slow.

This seems to suggest that defiling is the default.

 

[med stud]

Nice suggestions all around!

My suggestions:
* Weapons made by inferior materials use the stats of standard weapons. Metal weapons give bonuses. Otherwise a stone spear will be a worse choice of weapon than a wooden club, something that doesn't feel right. An iron weapon is +1, other materials give their usual bonus +1.

* When PHB II comes out with psionics, all starting PCs get one level 1 psionic power in addition to their regular powers to simulate wild talents.

* If there are no rules for light-armoured defenders in the RAW, defenders get +2 AC level 1. This is to compensate for the lack of heavy armours, that bonus plus Dex/Int- bonus puts an Athasian fighter or paladin at even ground with metal-wearing defenders in other settings.

* By adding a touch of personal cult to the power of their elemental vortexes, the sorcerer kings grant divine power in a different fashion than the power the clerics gets. Therefore, templars use the paladin class.

* Druids make pacts with the spirits of lands and other entities that awake due to the massive damage that is caused to Athas. They use the fey- pacted warlock class. The Dragon of Tyr puts a massive impression on the arcane flows of Athas. By utilizing the arcane movements of terror and agony, some people gains dark powers. They use the infernal warlock (fluff- wise, they are Dragon pacted warlocks).
Athas was thrown far, far away on the Astral Sea, losing connection with the other planes. So far out that some realms best not associated with have come close. Sensitive people feel their influence, gaining power. They use the Far realms- pacted warlocks.

* Clerics need re- fluffing, otherwise they can stay the same. Ambitious DMs may put different powers under the spheres of fire, water, earth, air or cosmos.

* As for races, elf, half elf, human, dwarf and halfling use the RAW. Dragonborn replace mûls. If you look in a Dark Sun- sourcebook, you see all those people with strange looks; they are perfect for tieflings. It is a different breed of humans, being created partly out of some twisted evolution, partly due to the magic that ravashes the world. They are cunning, brutal and possess strong personalities. They are refered to as "freaks" when someone feels like distinguishing them but otherwise they mix fairly well with humanity.

* If there are PC- rules for some big, strong and stupid race in the MM, that can be used for half giants.

 

[arscott]

Defiling is not the Force. It's engineering.

The Force has a light side and a dark side. You can live by the light side of the force, and it grants certain powers and abilites. Or you can embrace the dark side, losing some advantages of the light, but gaining others. It's a duality--Jedi and Sith are two sides of the same coin, equal and opposite.

Engineering isn't like that. Physics is physics--there's only one way of doing things right. And a good responsible engineer will design and build a bridge that will hold tremendous weight, survive earthquakes and floods, and last for generations. But a corrupt engineer will save time and money, break the rules of engineering, and build a half-assed bridge. When there's an earthquake, or when too many trucks drive over it at once, or when a few years have gone by, it will collapse. But the corrupt engineer doesn't care, because he embezzled the remaining money and now lives comfortably on a remote tropical island.

In short, defiling is selfish and lazy--It's fundamentally reckless.

Now go read Races and Classes. Specifically, the description of the sorcerer. Barely trained in magic? Lights nearby people on fire when he tries to cast a fire spell? Sounds pretty reckless to me. Using an entirely seperate base class for defilers will help them stay different from preservers, not just in character building or backstory, but in play.

And hey, It fits right in with "Sorcerer Kings".

The downside is that you'll have to wait for the PHB2 to come out before you can play. But given that it also has the druid, the psionicist, and quite possibly the bard, that seems like a good idea anyways.