D&D 5E Dark Sun doesn't actually need Psionics

[TwoSix]

I agree with your premise. To my mind, the central conflict in Dark Sun is that magic is bad, and its continued use by the sorcerer-kings is actively destroying the world. Not having an alternate source of supernatural power makes concepts like the Veiled Alliance and preservers in general more compelling.

It also helps to center the dichotomy between arcane magic (dangerous, but compelling if controlled) and divine magic (service to the land itself).

 

[Aldarc]

Dark Sun, to me, was awesome because it subverted the tropes of fantasy and mixed in post-apocalyptic themes.

...you mean with things like psionics?

The coolest stuff in Dark Sun, again to me, was never mind magics, but instead the defiler/preserver duality.

The coolest stuff in Dark Sun, again to me, was the mind magics of psionics having a viable place in this Sandals & Sorcery setting.

Psionics always felt like a way to ignore that divide and have "normal" magic.

Except psionics doesn't replicate what arcane magic does.

As such, it is not required for any of the major themes of Dark Sun.

You mean apart from the Dragon Kings, weird alien creatures, and its relative ubiquity in PCs?

@iserith and @Paul Farquhar's points about making monsters more weird is certainly a good one, but I'm not sure you need psionics to do that.

Just like you don't need arcane magic to make a harsh desert world.

It also helps to center the dichotomy between arcane magic (dangerous, but compelling if controlled) and divine magic (service to the land itself).

Death to all false dichotomies!

 

[UnknownDyson]

Okay, let me redirect slightly, as my point seems to be not very clear:

What central theme in Dark Sun is removed if you take psionics out, other than just not having psionics?

I think it is a central aspect of the world that shows how the inhabitants had to adapt to life with the absence of magic use from most people. In the same way that airships and warforged change the way that the world functions in Eberron, so do psionics in Dark Sun.

 

[wingsandsword]

Psionics are an integral part of Dark Sun.

Part of the whole point of the setting is a place where psionics are built into the setting from the ground-up, instead of just an added-on extra element that's integrated later, where psionics is treated as a full peer to Arcane and Divine magics.

Dark Sun without psionics would be like Dragonlance without the orders of high sorcery, Ravenloft without undead, or Planescape without Sigil. . .you could create a form of the campaign setting where it wasn't present, but it would be very different from how the setting was designed and is usually played.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

...you mean with things like psionics?

Psonics is a fantasy trope, or at least it was back in the days when Dark Sun was created.

 

[Ath-kethin]

Okay, let me redirect slightly, as my point seems to be not very clear:

What central theme in Dark Sun is removed if you take psionics out, other than just not having psionics?

Dark Sun, to me, was awesome because it subverted the tropes of fantasy and mixed in post-apocalyptic themes. The coolest stuff in Dark Sun, again to me, was never mind magics, but instead the defiler/preserver duality. Psionics always felt like a way to ignore that divide and have "normal" magic. As such, it is not required for any of the major themes of Dark Sun. Instead, it's loved not because it made the setting work but because people liked the mechanics, and that's cool but not necessary to have to do Dark Sun well. The argument that's commonly made is that you need a psionics system to do Dark Sun well, and I don't think you do, at all. Dark Sun would work perfectly fine without psionics.

@iserith and @Paul Farquhar's points about making monsters more weird is certainly a good one, but I'm not sure you need psionics to do that.

Psionics absolutely existed as the "environmentally friendly" magic in DS. It worked because psionics was fundamentally different from magic in the way it worked, down to the mechanics the psionics system used.

I think 5e has a steep hill to climb to make it all work, though. Unless defilers somehow have a "quicker and easier" path to magical power and preservers have a "slower but safer" path, the need for psionics is diminished. And if psionics follow the same "just rebadge spells" formula they have through the WotC-era, the distinction will become entirely academic (and pretty pointless IMO).

 

[Moon_Goddess]

I know it's not a good argument, but at this point I really can't think of it as any other angle than fairness.

Eberron doesn't need artificiers, but it's fans got them. Why should people who are fans of psionics in dark sun get less?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Why should people who are fans of psionics in dark sun get less?

Because they can't agree on what Psionics should look like.

 

[Aldarc]

Because they can't agree on what Psionics should look like.

A great argument for why D&D doesn't need rangers too.

 

[Laurefindel]

Okay, let me redirect slightly, as my point seems to be not very clear:

What central theme in Dark Sun is removed if you take psionics out, other than just not having psionics?

Dark Sun, to me, was awesome because it subverted the tropes of fantasy and mixed in post-apocalyptic themes. The coolest stuff in Dark Sun, again to me, was never mind magics, but instead the defiler/preserver duality. Psionics always felt like a way to ignore that divide and have "normal" magic. As such, it is not required for any of the major themes of Dark Sun. Instead, it's loved not because it made the setting work but because people liked the mechanics, and that's cool but not necessary to have to do Dark Sun well. The argument that's commonly made is that you need a psionics system to do Dark Sun well, and I don't think you do, at all. Dark Sun would work perfectly fine without psionics.

@iserith and @Paul Farquhar's points about making monsters more weird is certainly a good one, but I'm not sure you need psionics to do that.

I guess much depends on what you define as "magic", and whether psionic powers are magical powers or not.
Personally, i have no problem viewing psionic as the third realm of supernatural powers after arcane and divine magic, but I know that some really insist on psionic being radically different.