D&D 5E Dark Sun doesn't actually need Psionics

[Paul Farquhar]

With regard to the how-to-implement-defiling subthread: I do not think preserving or defiling should be a subclass, I think it should be a choice every time a(n arcane) spell is cast.

If I was doing it, I would make defiling equivalent to wizards in other worlds. Wizards could cast spells at -1 effective slot level (so you would need a 3rd level slot to get cast a second level spell) to have a shot at not defiling, or -2 effective slot level to guarantee it. Conversely unrepentant Defilers would lean harder into it (perhaps with a feat) to get a bonus to effective slot level. Maybe also have a countervailing Preserver feat that makes casting without defiling a little easier/better but not too much.

I think that achieves everything I set out to: Maintains the defiling-as-fossil-fuels metaphore. Makes it possible (but not too easy) to defile accidentally. Makes it a perpetually-tempting power boost, without making it inevertable for the careful. Doesn't add a die roll to every casting (just the edge cases, which is not too onerous.

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glass.

Yes, that seems like a good way to me. The only drawback I see is the lack of any mechanical drawback to defiling.

 

[glass]

Yes, that seems like a good way to me. The only drawback I see is the lack of any mechanical drawback to defiling.

I am ambivalent. One the one hand, too much of a mechanical drawback effectively removes the temptation to defile (and destroys the metaphore). On the other hand, the problem with the only downside is destroying Athas is that (unlike Earth) Athas does not actually exist.

Maybe something like if you defile a lot you accumulate corruption points, which eventually add up to some penalties (kinda like the dark side of the force, although probably steering clear of evil makes you ugly).

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glass.

 

[keynup]

Yes, that seems like a good way to me. The only drawback I see is the lack of any mechanical drawback to defiling.

Random thoughts:
I'd have some mechanic that would allow people to notice that there was defiling being cast.
Maybe have dead zones where there is not enough life to support defiling, so any casting is forced to be at the harder preserving.
Too much defiling without enough nature would lead to exhaustion levels.
Maybe every 4 spell levels you cast as defiling you get 1 level back

 

[Charlaquin]

Well, in the interview with one of the designers I posted earlier, the goal for Dark Sun was D&D hard mode for "advanced" players. I don't know why hard for D&D seems to focus so strongly on resource denial, but there you go.

I mean... Resource management has always been the fundamental challenge element of D&D. I know there are people who are going to take issue with me saying that and point out how their games aren’t like that, but the fact of the matter is that’s how the game is and always has been designed.

 

[Charlaquin]

Turns our that at least on of the designers wasn't happy with how psionics was integrated into Dark Sun. They still like the idea, they thought it fit and they wrote it into the lore, but the application wasn't what they expected or particularly wanted. They said they would have drastically limited the scope of who gets psionics and preferred a redone system. What that might be is unspoken.

Isn’t that always the story of psionics? People like the idea but not it’s implementation, and would always refer a different (unspecified) system.

 

[Ovinomancer]

I mean... Resource management has always been the fundamental challenge element of D&D. I know there are people who are going to take issue with me saying that and point out how their games aren’t like that, but the fact of the matter is that’s how the game is and always has been designed.

Fully agree, just pointing out that there's a lot of "harder" associated with taking things away. I mean, there's a difference in approach between adding encounters to stretch resources and increase hard choices about resource use and just taking away those resources. Couldn't say which is harder, though.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

Yes, people have preferences different from yours. Surely that makes them monsters worthy only of mockery. [/sarcasm]

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glass.

Satire is to mockery as psionics is to magic. Or aubergine is to eggplant.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[glass]

Isn’t that always the story of psionics? People like the idea but not it’s implementation, and would always refer a different (unspecified) system.

That's probably a problem with psionics. Another problem, which I suspect has been a bigger factor in how we have ended up where we are, is that a lot of people do not like the idea, and would vote against any implementation on genral principle.

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glass.

 

[Ovinomancer]

That's probably a problem with psionics. Another problem, which I suspect has been a bigger factor in how we have ended up where we are, is that a lot of people do not like the idea, and would vote against any implementation on genral principle.

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glass.

I see this argument, but no evidence for it. Are these people that hate psionics also intentionally quiet about it? That would be very weird, for a group of unorganized people that dislike a thing enough to both go out of their way to spike it and also be circumspect about it, especially given there's little to no social risk on being vocal.

Is there some evidence of this psionics hating informal cabal?

 

[glass]

I see this argument, but no evidence for it. Are these people that hate psionics also intentionally quiet about it? That would be very weird, for a group of unorganized people that dislike a thing enough to both go out of their way to spike it and also be circumspect about it, especially given there's little to no social risk on being vocal.

Nothing I can cite, just experience with interacting with them on the Internet for the last couple of decades. They are plenty vocal.

Is there some evidence of this psionics hating informal cabal?

I never said "cabal", please do not paint this as some kind of grand conspiracy theory. Just individual people voting on their oft-stated preferences.

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glass.