Dark Sun Hopes & Dreams & Fears & Nightmares

[Doug McCrae]

it was fundamentally a D&D setting that didn't really want to be a D&D setting, but a setting for some other game entirely.

People I game with face-to-face have said that exact same thing. These days I'm thinking that's true of all of 2e. It doesn't really want to be D&D. It would be happier if it had Prince Valiant's rules.

 

[Dausuul]

I dunno... I never really saw that.

Now, I like Dark Sun. I like it a lot. The concepts behind it are fascinating. I played in some truly fun Dark Sun campaigns years and years ago back when I was in high school...

But for me (and the other guys I played with) at that time, there were already dangerous desolate deserts, anti-magic zones, places where psionics trumped magic, places where the gods couldn't intervene, places where the normal gamut of creatures were replaced by the new and extraordinary, places where metal was rare and so stone and bone weaponry were all that was available -- These were already included in most other standard D&D campaigns to one degree or another, so Dark Sun was really nothing new. It was simply a microcosm expanded and embellished, Star Wars fashion, into an entire world.

The inability to escape Athas didn't make it any more unique or interesting for us. It only made the setting a one-trick pony that wore out its welcome after a campaign or two, and all the players had decided that they were bored with deserts and psionics and the frustrations of having high-level characters ignominiously die from thirst, and wanted to play something else.

I can't think of *any* setting that I would want to play in for more than 1-2 campaigns. At least not without a good long break in between.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Dark Sun isn't about dangerous jungles in another world that you need to adventure through.

The Forest Ridge.

. . . isn't from another world.

I'm with Professor Cirno. Athas's danger ands survival-aesthetic gets minimized when there are other planes with abundant resources just a hop away. Just crowbarring 4e cosmology into Athas runs a risk of being a cosmological 3rd nipple. Looks like it belongs but truly just unnecessary.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Man, don't go to the Athasian Feywild. You think the normal desert is harsh?

Athas, turned up to 11. I'm not sure that's especially interesting though. Athas already had the standard fantasy world "turned up to 11, with lotsa sand". So the Athasian Feywild is turned up to eleventy-eleven?

 

[Obryn]

Meh. I have to go with Cirno on this one - Athas really doesn't need planes. It doesn't have devils or demons (and shouldn't!) and really, fey don't often work either. Really, the only reason planes existed in DARK SUN was to explain how certain powers worked - they weren't really places your characters went to for any length of time.

There's an [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Black-Spine-Dark-Walter-Baas/dp/156076824X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272165695&sr=8-1]adventure[/ame] that disagrees with you here.

-O

 

[Wik]

There's an adventure that disagrees with you here.

-O

Never run/read that one. But I hold by my original point. Just because a published adventure goes away from what I see as being "the point" to the setting, doesn't mean I'm wrong. I mean, look at some of the later DS products - the setting jumped the shark pretty early on, unfortunately.

 

[Obryn]

I hope they make survival difficult. 4e overlooks bookkeeping like "water and food" for the most part, which is great, but I think DS needs a different approach, where starvation and thirst are real threats, at least at heroic tier. The buzz I've been hearing about making the terrain your enemy sounds great in this regard. I'm looking forward to watching resources slowly dwindle to 0, when they're still a week's march outside of any major settlement, and the tension that creates.

Things I would not expect: Detailed resource management, tracking specific food and water rations on a daily basis as the default.

Things I would expect: Skill challenge system used for desert travel, possibly group skill challenges, possibly a sidebar for more detailed resource management.

Thing I hope is there: Pulling honey globes off your kank.

Honestly, I didn't pay much attention to the resource management end of things when I ran it in 2e. I know it was supposed to be a main point of the setting, but I was a hell of a lot more into the "blowing up crazy mutated monsters with psionics" angle of the setting, back then.

-O

 

[Obryn]

Never run/read that one. But I hold by my original point. Just because a published adventure goes away from what I see as being "the point" to the setting, doesn't mean I'm wrong. I mean, look at some of the later DS products - the setting jumped the shark pretty early on, unfortunately.

Oh yeah. Very early on. This particular adventure involves githyanki and the astral plane, fwiw.

I'm just saying - as a Dark Sun fan, I already have a ton of experience ignoring official changes to the setting. Simply put, the setting as it stands after its product run had zero integrity (and/or dignity ), except that which the fans impose upon it, so nothing WotC does here can possibly ruin it more.

-O

 

[Wik]

Oh yeah. Very early on. This particular adventure involves githyanki and the astral plane, fwiw.

I'm just saying - as a Dark Sun fan, I already have a ton of experience ignoring official changes to the setting. Simply put, the setting as it stands after its product run had zero integrity (and/or dignity ), except that which the fans impose upon it, so nothing WotC does here can possibly ruin it more.

-O

Fully agree. I know when I run it, I'll be using only the boxed set, the city descriptions from The Veiled Alliance (but not the Alliance stuff!), parts of Dune Trader and The Ivory Triangle, and a bit of stuff from The City State of Tyr.

And whatever is cool in the 4e version. But I'm already putting my ongoing plotline together!

 

[WanderingMonster]

Things I would not expect: Detailed resource management, tracking specific food and water rations on a daily basis as the default.

Things I would expect: Skill challenge system used for desert travel, possibly group skill challenges, possibly a sidebar for more detailed resource management.

I think you're right. And I think adverse survival effects will affect the quality of short rest/extended rest in regard to recovering Healing Surges.