The problem with using lights is that non light using monsters will know you are coming and retreat to a more secure area or bring in reinforcements and they will all Prepare an Action to make a Ranged Attack on you when they can, since they know you are coming. I run every monster with an INT or WIS of 8+ this way since this is such an obvious thing to do.
D&D (2024) Darkvision: it's here to stay for most races. What penalties could be added to keep is viable, but still have incentive to use light?
Yes.. That's one of the big problems with removing darkness from relevance. Having light sources required as they were in past editions rather than obliviated like 5e does causes monsters to have an excuse for retreating to defensive positions that often requires some actual kick in the door & fight in combat as war rather than simply waiting quietly on their spawn point to be helplessly slaughtered as sport
CleverNickName
Limit Break Dancing
My suggestion:
Leave the rules for Darkvision alone.
Add new rules for Low-Light vision.
Redistribute both to all of the available races.
Leave the rules for Darkvision alone.
Add new rules for Low-Light vision.
Redistribute both to all of the available races.
"The monsters can't hit the players but they have insane HP" sounds like a recipe for slugfests.
WotC learned this lesson in 4e and then promptly forgot it.
MGibster
Legend
I'll probably continue to handle darkvision the way I handle it now; I'll just ignore low light penalities because it's just a pain in my rear end to keep track of it all. But if I were going to include penalties, it'd be little things like not knowing what color something is. not being able to read, etc., etc. I wouldn't apply penalties to ranged weapons so long as they can actually see their target.
Azzy
ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ
Ugh, gods... no. I was so happy when those got axed in favour of something supernatural seeming.
Azzy
ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ
Yeah, if the brought back low-light vision and reallocated who gets what—that would be terrific.
Baron Opal II
Hero
I appreciated the darksight of trolls in Glorantha / RQ. Basically, it was fantasy sonar. It allowed the trolls to "see" in greyscale in darkness. In some cases, that could make it easier to hide if you could present the right shape (I'm a boulder, too!). But, for the "eagle-eyed" among them some trolls could discern surface texture at a distance. Cloth or leather wrapped boulders aroused suspicion.
Illithidbix
Explorer
The trouble with Darkvision in 5E is the more liberal you are with it, the more powerful it gets and too easy to let it just be "you can see in the dark for 60'"
Critically it fails my criteria for a "simple reading check".
A player or DM who isn't really very rules focused will read the entry for Darkvision under a race entry at character gen at the start of the PHB "You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can't discern color in darkness, only shades of gray." and understandably miss the nuances of the penalties of Dim Light, without specifically going to look them.
Which is worse because even the "Vision and Light" section on p183 of the PHB then explains that "In a lightly obscured area, such as dim light, patchy fog, or moderate foliage, creatures have disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight." - but it's only on the hiding sidebar on p177 in the description of Dexterity ability checks that introduces the Passive Perception score (a fixed score of 10+ Wisdom(Perception) modifier) and that you have a -5 penalty to it if you have disadvantage.
So 5E darkvision isn't that great and there are some good reasons to still use light sources, but only if you take a bit of time to digest the spread out rules; and at a glance many 5E groups will effectively run it as you can see in the dark for 60'.
My brutal answer is to get rid of Infravision and instead replace it with low light vision which lets you see better in low light, but requires some light.
This works really well with Dwarfs getting limited Tremorsense.
Also because this is one of my biggest D&D/OSR soapbox topics, I'd get rid of Infravision for monsters.
I'm very slowly trying to define an relatively system agnostic compilation of different ways for monsters to hunt in the dark, and what clues these give away to PCs and what they can do to counter this. Obviously beyond sight there is smell, taste, touch and hearing.
But then we can branch out into more fantasy stuff.
Some ideas
Tremorsense already in 5E - sensing movement through solid surfaces like the ground.
Echolocation - using emitted vocal sounds to locate. Maybe ultrasonic but perhaps audible. (Bats already have specific rules for this)
Electrosense - sensing electrical discharge in water like muscle movement (sharks and platypus)
Lasereyes! - beams of light shone by magical creatures that illuminate areas so they can see, but likewise means the players can see what is being illuminated)
Truesight/Soulvision - literally detecting thoughts and emotions.
I might keep "heat sense" in as it's a thing that some animals have, but I would imagine it more like a very heightened sense of touch that feels heat sources and their direction rather than it being like modern military thermal imaging.
Critically it fails my criteria for a "simple reading check".
A player or DM who isn't really very rules focused will read the entry for Darkvision under a race entry at character gen at the start of the PHB "You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can't discern color in darkness, only shades of gray." and understandably miss the nuances of the penalties of Dim Light, without specifically going to look them.
Which is worse because even the "Vision and Light" section on p183 of the PHB then explains that "In a lightly obscured area, such as dim light, patchy fog, or moderate foliage, creatures have disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight." - but it's only on the hiding sidebar on p177 in the description of Dexterity ability checks that introduces the Passive Perception score (a fixed score of 10+ Wisdom(Perception) modifier) and that you have a -5 penalty to it if you have disadvantage.
So 5E darkvision isn't that great and there are some good reasons to still use light sources, but only if you take a bit of time to digest the spread out rules; and at a glance many 5E groups will effectively run it as you can see in the dark for 60'.
My brutal answer is to get rid of Infravision and instead replace it with low light vision which lets you see better in low light, but requires some light.
This works really well with Dwarfs getting limited Tremorsense.
Also because this is one of my biggest D&D/OSR soapbox topics, I'd get rid of Infravision for monsters.
I'm very slowly trying to define an relatively system agnostic compilation of different ways for monsters to hunt in the dark, and what clues these give away to PCs and what they can do to counter this. Obviously beyond sight there is smell, taste, touch and hearing.
But then we can branch out into more fantasy stuff.
Some ideas
Tremorsense already in 5E - sensing movement through solid surfaces like the ground.
Echolocation - using emitted vocal sounds to locate. Maybe ultrasonic but perhaps audible. (Bats already have specific rules for this)
Electrosense - sensing electrical discharge in water like muscle movement (sharks and platypus)
Lasereyes! - beams of light shone by magical creatures that illuminate areas so they can see, but likewise means the players can see what is being illuminated)
Truesight/Soulvision - literally detecting thoughts and emotions.
I might keep "heat sense" in as it's a thing that some animals have, but I would imagine it more like a very heightened sense of touch that feels heat sources and their direction rather than it being like modern military thermal imaging.
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