DDAL [DDAL PHB + 1 and summoning]

So. If you want to summon a creature, how do you summon it with the PHB + 1 limitation, assuming your second book isn't a Monster Manual?

Even if you want to make summoning a pure DM resource to get around this, there are certain summoning options, such as the Circle of the Shepherd, which explicitly allow you to pick monsters.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

jaelis

Oh this is where the title goes?
Pretty sure the +1 rule applies to character creation/abilities, not monsters.
 
Last edited:

thorgrit

Explorer
From the Player's Pack DDAL FAQ 7.1:

Can I Use the Monster Manual?
The Monster Manual and other resources are legal
resources for the purpose of determining what is
available for class features such as Wild Shape, Beast
Companion, and various conjure spells, noting that,
as always, your DM is the final arbiter for the
rules—including determining whether or not your
character has satisfied requirements such as those
imposed by your class (such as the druid’s
requirement to have seen the beast in question).
Additionally, without specific campaign
documentation, you can’t use any of the Variant
rules contained therein.

Finally, as there are no specific stat blocks for
“templated” creatures, such as half-dragons, these
are not permitted for use—only creatures with an
official stat block are available to players and DMs.

Additionally, from the Player's Guide 7.0, it looks like the PHB+1 rule is mainly intended to apply to race and class options, since the Monster Manual is not listed as a valid choice for an additional resource, yet druids and summoners are still able to pull from it.
 

gyor

Legend
From the Player's Pack DDAL FAQ 7.1:



Additionally, from the Player's Guide 7.0, it looks like the PHB+1 rule is mainly intended to apply to race and class options, since the Monster Manual is not listed as a valid choice for an additional resource, yet druids and summoners are still able to pull from it.

It really shouldn't apply to race, if it didn't it would fix most of the problems inheriant to the PHB +1 rule.
 


Remathilis

Legend
It really shouldn't apply to race, if it didn't it would fix most of the problems inheriant to the PHB +1 rule.
This again.

At this point, the +1 rule already excludes backgrounds, so we're just going to have +1 apply subclasses, feats, and spells? Basically making Volo and Mordenkainen* "freebies"? Might as well read "you can create your character from the rules in the PHB and Xanathar, unless you really want to be a bladesinger".

* So far, Tome of Foes has only suggested new racial options for elves, tieflings and gith.
 

Pauper

That guy, who does that thing.
At this point, the +1 rule already excludes backgrounds, so we're just going to have +1 apply subclasses, feats, and spells? Basically making Volo and Mordenkainen* "freebies"? Might as well read "you can create your character from the rules in the PHB and Xanathar, unless you really want to be a bladesinger".

It goes a bit farther than that, but yeah, it seems like the biggest 'problem' people have with the PHB +1 rule applying to races is that it excludes non-PH classes from being taken by Volo's monster races (so no goblin swashbucklers or yuan-ti Oath of the Crown paladins without exceptional circumstances).

--
Pauper
 

Going back to the original topic, the important part of the spell description is:

"The DM has the creatures' statistics."

"The DM has the elemental’s statistics."

"The DM has the celestial’s statistics. "

etc.

I don't know much about AL, but unless DM's are limited in what official D&D 5e books they can pull from, you should be able to ask for any critter that the spell could ask for. Of course, it is RAI that the DM decides what monster gets conjured (as long as it fits the type from the spell and the CR range that you picked/cast for). If there is an exception, I would say that this line in conjure elemental means that you can chose the type of element that the elemental comes from "Choose an area of air, earth, fire, or water that fills a 10-foot cube within range. An elemental of challenge rating 5 or lower appropriate to the area you chose appears in an unoccupied space within 10 feet of it." I wouldn't expect monsters from AP's to be likely DM choices unless it is the AP the season is based on (too bad, as elemental myrmidons are great conjures).
 

CapnZapp

Legend
It goes a bit farther than that, but yeah, it seems like the biggest 'problem' people have with the PHB +1 rule applying to races is that it excludes non-PH classes from being taken by Volo's monster races (so no goblin swashbucklers or yuan-ti Oath of the Crown paladins without exceptional circumstances).

--
Pauper
I think you deliberately ignored his point: for there to be a point of having restrictions, there must be something that is actually restricted.

On the surface, lifting races might seem reasonable.

But when you look closer, you realize there is not much left at all to restrict.

Thus means that those calling for races to be lifted should really admit they hate PHB+1 altogether, and want to remove the restriction altogether.

Of course, since that makes it easy to simply reply "Won't happen", we get this situation.
 

Remathilis

Legend
I think you deliberately ignored his point: for there to be a point of having restrictions, there must be something that is actually restricted.

On the surface, lifting races might seem reasonable.

But when you look closer, you realize there is not much left at all to restrict.

Thus means that those calling for races to be lifted should really admit they hate PHB+1 altogether, and want to remove the restriction altogether.

Of course, since that makes it easy to simply reply "Won't happen", we get this situation.
Exactly.

If you loosen the restriction on race, the +1 rule is basically crippled. Aside from a single feat (deep gnome magic) four cantrips, and six subclasses (battlerager, arcana cleric, crown paladin, long death monk, undying warlock and bladesinger) you could have all legal options open with just Xanathar as your +1 if race isn't restricted.
 

jaelis

Oh this is where the title goes?
Exactly.

If you loosen the restriction on race, the +1 rule is basically crippled. Aside from a single feat (deep gnome magic) four cantrips, and six subclasses (battlerager, arcana cleric, crown paladin, long death monk, undying warlock and bladesinger) you could have all legal options open with just Xanathar as your +1 if race isn't restricted.

Is there a reason this would be problem? I don't play AL so it doesn't matter to me, it just seems weird to justify a rule purely on the basis that a more lenient rule would be less restrictive.

---
FWIW, I would have said that the justification here is not really about balance so much as pushing against the culture of "having all the books gives you an advantage in the game." If you relax the +1 rule, then it means you probably want two extra books, and you'd have to buy a new book if it had either a race or a subclass that you wanted in it.
 
Last edited:

Remathilis

Legend
Is there a reason this would be problem? I don't play AL so it doesn't matter to me, it just seems weird to justify a rule purely on the basis that a more lenient rule would be less restrictive.
WotC doesn't want to it for two big reasons.

* It equalizes newer and more experienced players, since with two books max, newer players don't feel they need to buy everything to make effective PCs.
* It stops potentially degenerate combos from happening when x race, y subclass and z feat from different books mix.

For OP where a DM had little ability to control for either, I think it's a fair rule. For home play, its overkill.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
Is there a reason this would be problem? I don't play AL so it doesn't matter to me, it just seems weird to justify a rule purely on the basis that a more lenient rule would be less restrictive.
Well, first off, no it would not be a problem.

The rule was certainly not made to stop race combos. It was made to stop (or at least slow) the kind of combos that plagued 3rd edition (and presumably tournament play at that time).

The rule was made before it turned out that WotC really is much better at avoiding powercreep this time around. Sure, they do it by not publishing much new crunch at all, but still - little powercreep.

But changing the rule now is not going to happen.

All we're doing here and now is pointing out that the "at least allow race" argument is hollow: there's nothing "at least" about it.

It does not mean I think the rule is needed because of race.

It does mean I understand why the rule was instituted. It just turns out it hasn't really stopped anything particularly egregious - yet.

I completely understand why they wanted to add the rule already from the beginning, though.

My 2 cents.
 

An Advertisement

Advertisement4

Top