Dealing with arrogant characters (players)?

[shilsen]

I am amazed at the amount of success that there is in simply pulling players aside and having a little chat. It can save so much grief and hardship.

What he said. I mention at the beginning of the campaign that while the PCs are the center of the game and the campaign, that is a metagame fact. To the NPCs, they are just another group of adventurers, and any respect or special treatment they want is something which has to be earned. And however special you get, it's not very likely that the king of your country (or some noble, or the merchant prince, etc.) is going to kowtow to you.

 

[francisca]

Heed BSF. He is wise in the way of both games and gamers.

Should talking and in-game prodding not solve the problem, kill his character, burn the char sheet, melt down his mini, then boot him.

I am sure all the DM's have encountered them before - characters who think they are better than all the NPCs and don't have to show any respect to them unless the said NPC is giving them treasure or a magic item? Ofcourse this is explained away by them playing 'in character'! Funny how all their characters are like this.

And they always play chaotic neutral, too....

 

[Hannibal King]

Thanks guys. Booting players is not a solution cause from what I read on the forums there are worse players out there to have to play with and these guys are OK, most of the time.

I think what bothers me is when the characters take on thugs and easily whoop them so the next time they actually have the audacity to say something along the lines of "you guys should just give up now before were forced to kill you." WTF?!

I have promised myself if this comment is EVER used again, these 'thugs' will suddenly gain multiple class levels, some nifty magic items or a large number of reinforcements and pummel the characters into unconsciousness. When they awaken they will be aboard a slave ship, minus their precious gear headed for the Pirate Isles or some such 'teach em a lesson' like fate. And I will continue to do this until they start respecting their friends and foes to at least a minor degree.

IMHO if you want to play a game where you don't have to respect any NPCs, play computer game RPGs. Real RPGs are about roleplaying and thus should at least have believably acting involved othewise go play a table top skirmish game!

And why is it always the DM who has to ask the players what kind of game they want? For once I'd like the players to approach the DM with ideas, settings, themes etc.
The one problem with D&D is the DM/Players system. The day someone comes up with a D&D style game without this issue will be the day the gaming industry will rejoice!

The King

 

[Crothian]

well, it also depends on how they do it. There are ways to be arrogant with style and make it funny. granted, it doesn't sound like they are doing this, but it can be fun.

 

[Herpes Cineplex]

I'd try a carrot in addition to a stick.

I.e., I'd go out of my way to reward good behavior. Including with tangible benefits (e.g., lower prices than the arrogant guy gets, etc.).

Absolutely. Let the NPCs reward politeness and kindness with the same, and not waste their time on rude jerks (not even to tell them to buzz off). Important NPCs make time to speak with the polite characters, while the arrogant ones have to cool their heels outside and never even get to see them.

It's a nice, realistic, non-confrontational way of handling it, and sometimes it actually works. And if it doesn't, well, at least you're keeping that PC from interacting with the NPCs, and that's as close to a victory as you were likely to get.


Another thing I'd suggest trying if you're just completely sick of an arrogant PC is ridicule. He starts copping an attitude with an NPC for no reason? Then start having the other NPCs poke fun at him. Maybe some of them do it in a friendly way, an "Oh, man, I just can't get enough of this guy. Next time we throw a party, someone needs to invite him. We won't need to hire jesters" kind of thing. You know, just skirting the edge of saying "This guy is a huge buffoon who thinks he's cool, let's give him some more rope and see what kind of knot he ties to hang himself with." Maybe other NPCs just laugh at him. Maybe some resort to childish taunts (repeating everything the PC says in their best OH YOU'RE SO SCAAAAAARY voice).

And then keep it up out-of-character if they don't take a hint. Make side jokes about how everyone in the game world thinks that PC is a self-absorbed doofus who doesn't even realize when he's sticking his foot in his mouth.

I tell you, nothing wounds an ego-driven character as much as being made into a running joke. When they hear all their best Clint Eastwood one-liners coming back to them as punchlines to funny anecdotes about how their PC is universally considered a ridiculous jackass, most of them start to watch their tongues...if only to give you less material to work with.


There are some other things to try, too. Making most of the "ordinary" NPCs the party interacts with be relatively good-natured, honest people who are inclined to be helpful and forthcoming about the things that are important to them as well as things that they have no vested interest in being cagey or domineering about, for example. (I sometimes think the worst Arrogant PC Syndromes are the result of playing in games where every NPC was a closed-mouthed bastard who was out to screw over the PCs. DON'T BE THAT GUY.)

--
oh, and i suppose you could ask them not to play arrogant jerks, too
ryan

 

[painandgreed]

I think what bothers me is when the characters take on thugs and easily whoop them so the next time they actually have the audacity to say something along the lines of "you guys should just give up now before were forced to kill you." WTF?!

I have promised myself if this comment is EVER used again, these 'thugs' will suddenly gain multiple class levels, some nifty magic items or a large number of reinforcements and pummel the characters into unconsciousness. When they awaken they will be aboard a slave ship, minus their precious gear headed for the Pirate Isles or some such 'teach em a lesson' like fate. And I will continue to do this until they start respecting their friends and foes to at least a minor degree.

I find this disagreeable. Play hard but play fair. As PCs they probably are better than these nameless "thugs' and the thugs probably should be give up before they get killed. Why penalize the players if they are properly reading the encounters you give them? If you want to stick them with a lesson put them up against high level "thugs" ahead of time with a non-combat solution. If they don't take the non-combat solution that requires being less arrogant, then take them down a notch or two.

The game is plagued with disposable NPCs. Don't populate it with disposable NPCs that they have to kill. Present them with non-combat adventures and such. After all, if they're not takign the initiative to come up with their own adventures or at least suggest them, then they're stuck with what is presented to them.

Otherwise, teach them that all actions have consequences. First off, such remarks and possbily actions don't sound like good or even neutral ones. Threaten them with evil alignments if they keep up evil actions and blatent disreguard for life. Other than that, who did they kill? Was it legal? Will the town guard come looking for them because of it? Can they fight every man at arms and NPC in the city? Can they threaten the King's order and live? Even in a violent society, arrogant murder sprees draw attention. Breaking the law causes people to look for somebody to punish, even if framed. If they get too arrogant with the town guard, lets see how they feel without a city that welcomes them. Even the bad guys will take notice. if the PCs are killing too many and making a name for themselves, then they're bound to draw attention. perhaps drawing down on them a pre-emptive strike by somebody who feels that the PCs will be a problem if allowed to prosper. With the PCs oblivious to such an enemy, they could end up in a lot of trouble and misfortune caused by an enemy who isn't even having to endanger himself.

 

[Goblyns Hoard]

And why is it always the DM who has to ask the players what kind of game they want?

Too right - as a DM I'm blessed with a group of very gracious and friendly players - they realise the amount of work that I put in and appreciate it. If your players aren't doing that then you need to make it clear to them exactly how much effort you put in for them to have their fun. All they need to do is turn up! That doesn't give us DMs a free rein to dictate the style of game but nor should it be the players' alone.

Question for you - is this a single player or a group of them - your 2nd post made it seem like it's more widespread than just 1 player. If that's the case then you do have a problem. A single player can be sidelined enough that he/she is a) not reducing your fun and b) might get the message and wise up. If they're all doing it then you have an epidemic on your hands. The one time I did have a player of this sort we dumped him and I can tell you now there was no better solution as far as I'm concerned.

If it is more widespread then I can only suggest that you come down on them hard in game. Write yourself up an Elminster that has come to your town/city recently and put him in their way somehow. Make sure that there is some plot reason for him to be there and when they insult him have him insult them back. And when they attack him have him wipe the floor with them - but not kill them. The next thing they know they're in prison for attacking the royal wizard, king's brother-in-law, whoever. Let them escape and have a bunch of NPCs hunt them down and not let them rest at all (no spells, no natural healing, etc.) for a session or two. When they complain you have a valid point - the guy was there to ask them to go on a quest for him but he's a proud man and used to being shown some respect. Afterall you were only playing his character. It may be a little hard, it may not solve the problem - but show them in-game consequences of their behaviour. Then if they want to start afresh they have a choice - continue running, apologise or roll up new characters. It's not the best solution but it's the only one I can think of at the moment.

 

[Fenes]

Thanks guys. Booting players is not a solution cause from what I read on the forums there are worse players out there to have to play with and these guys are OK, most of the time.

I think what bothers me is when the characters take on thugs and easily whoop them so the next time they actually have the audacity to say something along the lines of "you guys should just give up now before were forced to kill you." WTF?!

I have promised myself if this comment is EVER used again, these 'thugs' will suddenly gain multiple class levels, some nifty magic items or a large number of reinforcements and pummel the characters into unconsciousness. When they awaken they will be aboard a slave ship, minus their precious gear headed for the Pirate Isles or some such 'teach em a lesson' like fate. And I will continue to do this until they start respecting their friends and foes to at least a minor degree.

IMHO if you want to play a game where you don't have to respect any NPCs, play computer game RPGs. Real RPGs are about roleplaying and thus should at least have believably acting involved othewise go play a table top skirmish game!

And why is it always the DM who has to ask the players what kind of game they want? For once I'd like the players to approach the DM with ideas, settings, themes etc.
The one problem with D&D is the DM/Players system. The day someone comes up with a D&D style game without this issue will be the day the gaming industry will rejoice!

The King

Hmm... I do not see any problem in being arrogant when faced with thugs. Heck, if you beat the last bunch of bandits easily, then you have earned your arrogance, and at one point you should be able to tell highwaymen and others to get lost before you get angry, or you get into the "PCs level up, average thug levels up in the world" syndrome.

Heck, disrespecting a noble, or good citizen is one thing, but disrespecting some scumbag of a thug? I would go WTF at a DM taking this wrong.

I also do not really get what is so wrong at playing arrogant characters, as long as it stays in character - I don't see the need to play a party of nice, easy-going good-natured heroes who treat everyone with the same respect. You should have consequences for treating a noble like dirt, but a peasant?

 

[wedgeski]

You should have consequences for treating a noble like dirt, but a peasant?

That's a character decision, the same as it would be for me personally to treat everyone I meet like dirt. What goes around comes around. If you only ever show deference to someone who [a] has a higher social standing, or more money, or [c] would kick your ass if you didn't, then you're making a decision to be a generally obnoxious character. If that's the prevailing tone of the campaign, though, then all to the good.

 

[hong]

Thanks guys. Booting players is not a solution cause from what I read on the forums there are worse players out there to have to play with and these guys are OK, most of the time.

I think what bothers me is when the characters take on thugs and easily whoop them so the next time they actually have the audacity to say something along the lines of "you guys should just give up now before were forced to kill you." WTF?!

I have promised myself if this comment is EVER used again, these 'thugs' will suddenly gain multiple class levels, some nifty magic items or a large number of reinforcements and pummel the characters into unconsciousness. When they awaken they will be aboard a slave ship, minus their precious gear headed for the Pirate Isles or some such 'teach em a lesson' like fate. And I will continue to do this until they start respecting their friends and foes to at least a minor degree.

Passive, meet aggressive.

Hi aggressive, how are you?

Well, thanks, passive, and you?

Not bad, aggressive, not bad at all.