Dealing with essential impossibility

[MithrasRahl]

He's a great DM in some aspects, but never listens to criticism, and never admits he's wrong.

The issue is at a standstill anyways, as we have all gone back to university, but I may have some more interesting stories come x-mas.

In the meantime, another friends is about to run "The Shackled City" , and it's the first time he's run a D&D campaign for us (He's used to running White Wolf stuff). Should be interesting.

 

[Bad Paper]

Geez Infiniti2000. Advocating for conflict as a resolution does not sound like wisdom.

The first step in conflict-resolution is to identify the conflict. Until the players raise the issue with the DM, there is no conflict. Communication is a good thing. I2k's advice is solid.

 

[Thurbane]

Our DM plays in a very low-magic world. Magic items from the DMG cost 2-2.5 times more than they should, and we rarely find useful magic items, or even gold with which to buy magic items.

We had a recent encounter with 4 Iron Half-Golems, and the entire party almost died. The only reason we survived is because our resident power gamer happened to roll particularly well, and the DM rolled particularly badly.

After the combat, he laughed and said "These guys are only CR4! how crazy is that?"

...

Well, when all level 6 fighters should have access to +2 weaponry...

There is no real question here, unless it's "How do you say something without pissing your friend/Dm off?"

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a running a low magic/low resources campaign, despite what anyone may tell you.

However, the onus is then on the DM to balance encounters accordingly. I myslef run a relatively low magic campaign for my players (though not as low as the above example), which they all enjoy greatly. But, I am exceedingly careful not to throw opponents at them which they have no real means of defeating.

The only time I had them fight a golem so far, for example, they knew ahead of time what they were dealing with, and had the opportunity "borrow" some adamantine weapons from an allied dwarven smithy.

Also bear in mind, that not all encounters should be winnable. There are some encounters that the party should exercise some common sense and flee from. Sometimes player pride gets in the way of common sense, though. Imagine if the Fellowship of the Ring had decided to stand and fight the ring-wraiths instead of fleeing to the elven stronghold. Most likely they'd all be dead, and Sauron would have his ring back.

How to approach your DM with your concerns? All I can say is do it in a calm and justified manner. Don't go in hostile, just explain to him that you feel the encounters might be a little too tough for your group due to the magic and equipment restrictions. One word of advice: don't "gang up" on him. I can tell you from experience, one way to put a DM off-side is to approach him as a group with a hostile or saracastic attitude. Certainly, discuss it as a group, but try to not set up an "us versus you" mentaility if at all possible...

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Does anyone else see "low-magic" and "4 iron half-golems" in the same game and think "Hmmm"?

 

[Particle_Man]

Maybe get him to try running Iron Heroes. It is designed to be low magic but the PCs can keep up with the monsters.

 

[Sejs]

Does anyone else see "low-magic" and "4 iron half-golems" in the same game and think "Hmmm"?

That was the first thought through my mind, yes.

Had one of those mouth hanging half open, one finger raised as if to ask a question, blinking in slow recognition -type moments and everything.

 

[Herobizkit]

We had a recent encounter with 4 Iron Half-Golems [...] "These guys are only CR4! how crazy is that?"

Does your DM realize that, when calculating challenge ratings, he has to add +1 to the CR for every like creature in the mix?

One (ie, 1) Half-Golem is indeed a CR 4, and your party of under-equipped heroes would still have a good fight. But FOUR Half-Golems is a CR 8 encounter. For the same party, it "should" be a very difficult fight, even for a well-equipped team.

 

[Storyteller01]

Does anyone else see "low-magic" and "4 iron half-golems" in the same game and think "Hmmm"?

makes ya think, no??

 

[Thurbane]

Hey, iron golems need lovin' too...

 

[edemaitre]

Dungeon Mastering is an art, not a science

As someone who has been a Dungeon Master in multiple editions of "Dungeons & Dragons," I agree that balancing the power level of the Player Character party with that of opponents is a major challenge, especially in Edition 3.5. I always appreciate it when my role-players offer constructive criticism after a session, but I don't like getting bogged down in rules debate during a combat scene or personal attacks among group members out of character during a session.

I agree that as written, Challenge Ratings assume a certain level of wealth, magic items, and combat ability on the part of your average party. I also agree that it's possible to run a lower-powered game with D&D3.5, but both the D.M. and the players must agree to certain assumptions regarding the availability of enchanted items, the use of certain feats, and what sorts of foes they may find. Many of the "low fantasy" D20 supplements offer a grittier feel that some might prefer as "more realistic," but the D.M. and players must agree on their assumptions as a party and campaign begin.