Dealing with essential impossibility

[Nail]

In his defense, most of the "foes" we've been fighting have been humanoid with equally bad magical equipment.

Has your DM adjusted either the CR or (more appropriately) the EL to compensate for the lack of equipment (of PC and apparently NPCs)?

 

[Fieari]

I thought that you broke them into pairs...

2 CR4 = CR5
2 CR5 = CR6

So 4 CR4s is CR6

Am I making this up?

No, you're basically correct. Except use the abbreviation EL instead of CR.

 

[Bad Paper]

I thought that you broke them into pairs...

2 CR4 = CR5
2 CR5 = CR6

So 4 CR4s is CR6

No. Two CR4 = EL6. Two CR5 = EL7. Two CR6 = EL8. and so on

Thus, four CR4 is an EL8. Usually. Mitigating circumstances can change that, such as "low magic."

 

[werk]

No, you're basically correct. Except use the abbreviation EL instead of CR.

Right!

2 CR4s = 1 EL5
2 EL5s = EL6
Herobizkit had it kinda right... For each additional creature of the same CR, increase the EL by 1. But because of that you have to pair them up, an addition CR4 doesn't increase a EL5, but two do.

Sorry Bad Paper, I think this is right...what's your source?

 

[shilsen]

Right!

2 CR4s = 1 EL5
2 EL5s = EL6
Herobizkit had it kinda right... For each additional creature of the same CR, increase the EL by 1. But because of that you have to pair them up, an addition CR4 doesn't increase a EL5, but two do.

Sorry Bad Paper, I think this is right...what's your source?

Bad Paper is correct and you're wrong, actually. Check the DMG.

 

[seans23]

Bad Paper is correct and you're wrong, actually. Check the DMG.

Specifically, "Challenge Ratings and Encounter Levels" on page 48 of the Dungeon Master's Guide.

or just plus the numbers in here:
http://d20srd.org/encounterCalculator.htm

 

[mvincent]

The first step in conflict-resolution is to identify the conflict. Until the players raise the issue with the DM, there is no conflict. Communication is a good thing. I2k's advice is solid.

I feel that I2k's advice is almost always solid, and I'll even admit to needlessly chastising him. However, one (evidently unintended) interpretation of his initial statement* was: "Feel free to anger your DM"

Deliberately or carelessly angering someone is not conducive to communication nor resolution. Also (to reuse a stale platitude) "Two wrongs don't make a right". He since clarified the statement and I thought no more of it, so I was surprised to find you defending a sentiment that I2k himself says he did not intend.

* i.e. " Why are you worried about angering him when he clearly is not worried about angering you?"

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Does anyone else see "low-magic" and "4 iron half-golems" in the same game and think "Hmmm"?

HA! Thats the very first thing that popped in my head. I would imagine the carcasses of 4 iron half-golems would go for HUGE amounts of money in a land that is low-magic.

DS

 

[Jack Simth]

it really is anoying when a dm makes a low magic campain and gives them alot less gold, but dosent change anything else to balance out?

Why do dms do this? Is it the only way they think they can "win", or stay ahead? besides being a dm from 1e or 2e, what other facters creats dms like this? It really bugs me, and i wish to know more about these dms and what makes them tick?

anyone have any insights? keep us up to date MithrasRahl, K?

It can be deliberate - in which case, it's just the flavor of the game, and the DM *should* know to plan accordingly.

Sometimes, though, it happens by accident - lots of low-wealth opponents due to a thematic section of the storyline (e.g., low-level undead hordes; Ghouls, Zombies, and Skeletons all have Treasure: None), or happens via story award XP - you get 1,000 xp for finding out that the nifty ultra-strong red metal weapons are just a simple process by which Iron gets a better temper from being quenched in the blood of the innocent, but you don't get 5,000 gp for figuring it out. In such a case, the way to fix it is to carefully point the DM to the wealth-by-level tables, and then show him the differences between a couple of character builds with expected wealth, and with the wealth the players have (fighter-types are easiest) and find comperable critters in the MM - to both builds - and note the CR difference. There's a reason for those guidelines. Do remember to mention to him, however, that there's a simple way to fix it - set the party against almost-clones of the party members (one at a time) with a decent set of equipment for the appropriet PC you're almost-cloning.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Our DM plays in a very low-magic world. Magic items from the DMG cost 2-2.5 times more than they should, and we rarely find useful magic items, or even gold with which to buy magic items.

While I don't prefer this kind of game, many DMs here on ENWorld run successful campaigns based on this premise. So the campaign is not in and of itself problematic.

We had a recent encounter with 4 Iron Half-Golems, and the entire party almost died. The only reason we survived is because our resident power gamer happened to roll particularly well, and the DM rolled particularly badly.

These things happen. Some encounters push a party to the brink. This in and of itself is not indicative of a problem.

After the combat, he laughed and said "These guys are only CR4! how crazy is that?"

Here is an actual issue. The DM from his comment seems to still be judging encounter difficulty based on standard CRs, when he's modified his game so as to make them relatively useless. Without a standard array of magical powers, he's going to have to eyeball each encounter and guage the difficulty himself.

I'd suggest that you politely and in a friendly fashion point out to him that the CR rating is built on the assumption of standard wealth, and therefore he may need to re-evaluate monsters based on his own judgment, rather than relying on CRs.

I honestly don't think there's a serious problem at this point. Your DM may be quite willing and capable of tailoring his monster selection to your actual power levels. His comment indicates that he may not have thought of this necessity thus far, but does not necesarily indicate he is unwilling or incapable.

Give it some time. If, after five or six more sessions, he's TPK'd you guys several times and still clings to CRs as a justification for his choices ("These guys are only CR6! They're perfectly appropriate!") then you have a legitimate issue to deal with. Until then, consider it a DM's growing pains, as he learns how to handle the kind of campaign he wants to run.