Dealing with paranoid players

[Wycen]

I was going to suggest the DM adopt a sandbox or open ended style, but since you've said she's new, that probably is easier said than done.

Part of me wants to suggest dumping the lame players.
Part of me wants to suggest dumping the adventure path.
Part of me wants to suggest hiring henchman and continuing when the 2 lame players sit back and watch.

So, I reread your first post and focused on this: "she suddenly tossed the adventure path away and said "I don't think I want to do this anymore".

Sounds really like a break is needed, but I suspect from experience that would result eventually in no game at all.

So, the DM should consider cutting down her prep time. Use this as her opportunity to learn some off the cuff gaming skills. I'm NOT suggesting dumping the adventure, rather, don't worry if she reads the wrong text or can't find the description of the room. Make it up! Can't find the stats for the undead wizard? Just find something close and go with the flow. How are the players going to know the difference? They don't want to go into the evil shrine? Fine, skip it and put the info they need into the next encounter.

The point I guess I'm trying to make is the DM should put their time and energy into other avenues, which may not be related to her previous experience with the Age of Worms.

 

[S'mon]

In the "main" campaign where I play, two players, of which I am one, came from another campaign that made us very paranoid (yes, also Shadowrun) a few years ago.

Our new DM wants his players to be active and do things. He also dislikes resurrection, because of how it influences the world, and dislikes losing PC:s, since he wants to tie long-lasting story plots to them.

His solution is simple, but I don't think it will sit well with several others here .

He said upfront "Your characters are not going to die. If you lose HP so that you would have died, you will have an old serial-style cliffhanger escape instead. You will lose out on the rest of the encounter, you may limp back injured and it may leave its marks. You can get defeated, but you are not going to die."

That made wonders for our paranoia, as you can imagine.

And the cliffhanger escapes led to several real cool events in the campaigns (we are into our third with the same DM and group):

Once, when my character would have died to a giant shrimp (don't ask), she escaped miraculously and inexplicably. When we got back to town, we learned that a magic item she had commissioned, an intricate bone carving, had crumbled and turned to dust in the artisan's hands at the same moment.

Another of my characters would have died on top of Olidammara's altar, on his holy day, which was a carnival, at the stroke of midnight, which was the climax of the carnival. This was not contrived, but something we realized when it had just happened. She was rescued by divine intervention, and with some changes...

Another time we had would have been a TPK. Instead we woke up in the dungeons of a Hag, who wanted to use us as ingredients for a nasty ceremony. It was real fun breaking out of that one...

As for deterrent against doing too stupid things, losing face by getting defeated in a stupid way is quite enough, thank you.

Further to this, if the players are not too clinically paranoid, one thing that can help is to use Fate Points like those in Warhammer RPG or OGL Conan - the player has a "You won't die" resource they can spend at their option. It does not totally negate the possibility of death, but it means the player can choose for their PC not to die from a particular slip-up. If you're running a meatgrinder AP then Fate Points seem a particularly good idea to me; there is still a gamist challenge in seeing if you can make it to the end of the AP, but the Fate Points give a buffer.

In Conan you start with 3 and can gain more from special achievements, I also give them out if the PCs are arbitrarily 'screwed over by Fate' - starting an adventure washed up on a beach after a shipwreck or in jail after a cutscene, for instance.

 

[Wednesday Boy]

The heroic fantasy genre doesn't work when the players are trying to play weak peasants. Heck, hack and slash doesn't work when you are playing weak peasants. Sounds to me like they are looking for a horror/thriller type game.

The horror/thriller genre typically stars everyday people and often requires the main characters to be especially curious (arguably wreckless and/or idiotic) for the story to progress. (Many horror movies would be over in 10 minutes if the protagonists just got in their car and fled or didn't go down into the creepy basement.) If these players are overly cautious playing adventurers in a heroic campaign, I bet they'll be even worse playing in a horror/thriller game.

 

[NewJeffCT]

The thing is, I play D&D to try to be heroic. I'm pretty quiet & laid back in real life, so I play D&D to be the knight in shining armor who rescues the damsel in distress, or the wizard who does great magic to save a village full of widows & orphans.

I think these guys being excessively meek & cowardly in game is kind of defeating the purpose of the game overall.

Unfortunately, I'm not really sure about what you can do other than what was suggested above - telling them they're not going to die. (Even then, I can see them, "But what about torture and maiming?")

BTW, in my last campaign, if I didn't kill a PC each encounter, I didn't think I was doing my job as DM - however, with access to Revivify through the party cleric and party psion, death was just another obstacle to be overcome. Heck, the dwarf fighter died three times in one combat once.

 

[the Jester]

When the paladin said he would go back for his armor they said they wouldn't wait. That they were taking off over country not by the road. I know I was worried about how we would find them again.

I looked over and saw how upset my roommate was and I didn't push. I didn't want to do anything to make matters worse for her and she ended the session there.

While they have done paranoid things before never anything this bad.

I literally was paralyzed in tying to figure out how to handle this. I was tired it was late and I couldn't believe what was happening.

Next time, let them leave, get your gear and go looking for BRAVE adventurers to join your party.

I have to say, if the dude can't recognize the issue and freaks out when the dm tries to have a one-on-one about it, DTMFA.

 

[billd91]

The issue seems to be that he is role player with a capital R and that in his mind he assumes that the world is more like a real world where you often face things that you can't handle. It is one of the flaws of a level based game. Sometimes you just have to metagame a little an accept that this is a game and that one of the constraints is balanced CR threats.

He pointed out that though we are tenth level in game time we have been adventuring four months and he says his character does not have that much experience to realize he no longer as weak as he was four months ago. From a role playing point that makes sense but it makes it hard to play the game. I don't know how to fix this aspect of it.

He is used to playing in homebrew games where the world is more organic and there are things you are meant to run from. In an adventure path everything is calculated per level so you don't face threats to hard to handle or over your pay grade.

To him metagaming is a dirty word. And I think he is having issues playing a way that seems very foreign to him.

Sounds like BS rationalizing to me. It's got the whiff of a player on the defensive over his non-adventurous, paranoid play style.

If it were really about the RP, he'd recognize that the character he's playing isn't a good fit for the campaign and he'd be able to make up a new one and be able to play it effectively without being paralyzed by paranoia. You could even suggest that to give him an out from the position he's taken. After all, this is just a pen and paper character. What has he actually got to lose by walking into a trap and dying? The chance to roll dice, live by the moment, and die in a blaze of glory.

 

[Oryan77]

Sounds like BS rationalizing to me........he'd recognize that the character he's playing isn't a good fit for the campaign and he'd be able to make up a new one and be able to play it effectively without being paralyzed by paranoia.

That's how you know his excuse about being heavily into roleplaying the character is BS.

I'll bet money on it that any character he plays in this game will be doing the same paranoid things if nobody pointed it out to him. I doubt it is him roleplaying as much as it is his personal way of playing a game like D&D. It's sort of like when a hack-n-slasher that doesn't roleplay says that he is roleplaying because his PC is the silent brute type that just likes to kill stuff. It's just an excuse to continue playing the way he wants to play.

 

[chaochou]

He pointed out that though we are tenth level in game time we have been adventuring four months and he says his character does not have that much experience to realize he no longer as weak as he was four months ago. From a role playing point that makes sense but it makes it hard to play the game. I don't know how to fix this aspect of it.

To him metagaming is a dirty word. And I think he is having issues playing a way that seems very foreign to him.

I can't understand this guy's mindset at all. But anyway, here's a couple of points.

As others have said, Roleplay with a capital R has been used since the beginning of time to try and justify all kinds of undesirable behaviour. 'I'm playing my character' is never an acceptable answer when it's spoiling the fun for others - working with the playstyles of everyone at the table is the primary responsibility of everyone there.

There's no solutions from the internet for these things. It's down to personal diplomacy, tact, compromise. Ultimately, if the group can't find a middle ground which everyone finds enjoyable then end the game. Nothing worse that trying to force people to change.

 

[Spatula]

The issue seems to be that he is role player with a capital R and that in his mind he assumes that the world is more like a real world where you often face things that you can't handle.

That's just rationalizations & justifications for selfish behavior, IMO. I suppose it's not surprising that the player would get defensive when feeling criticized. Note that I don't think your roommate did anything wrong. It's just that it's hard to have this sort of conversation with some folks without them feeling attacked.

From a role playing point that makes sense

I disagree. It's a bullpoop excuse for harming everyone else's enjoyment. And not even a new excuse... IME, "I'm just roleplaying my character, you can't fault me for that," is the go-to excuse for most misanthropic behavior in RPGs.

but it makes it hard to play the game. I don't know how to fix this aspect of it.

Don't play D&D with those players, real-life friend or no. Maybe you could play an RPG together where paranoia is rewarded or expected, but heroic fantasy is obviously not their thing.

They are bad players in this case because they're ruining the game for the majority, and are unwilling to take responsibility for that or to change their bad behavior.

These two players are not just gaming buddies they are real life friends so I just don't want say get out of the game.

I am hoping that we can find away to fix this before just giving up.

I wish you luck. You'll need it.

I do sympathize. I've dealt with a player who, while not as extreme, was often overly cautious. She'd poke holes in everyone else's plans because of all the things that could go wrong, but often had nothing constructive to offer herself. It's very frustrating to play a heroic game with a wet blanket.

 

[MichaelSomething]

In their defense, their play style would be perfect for an old school dungeon crawler.

However, they are clearly jerks since they know they are acting like they are in a different genre yet refuse to change.

My advice is for your DM to call it a campaign. Or better yet, indulge their paranoia