Dealing with unthankful players

[catsclaw227]

You have piqued my curiosity. Any more details you feel comfortable giving out? How did you "screw up" (if, in fact, you did) and how did that lead to accusations of favoritism?

I am curious about this as well. I am trying to imagine how a skill challenge or two might cause the kind of party reaction you are talking about.

Would you be willing to tell us the story?

 

[ST]

Between friends, starting up a conversation like "Hey, it feels like you complain about my DMing a lot. What's up with that? What don't you like, specifically?" is a reasonable topic.

That may sound like an uncomfortable situation, but since it's already an issue, it'd be better off handled in the open.

 

[roguerouge]

Say: "I need a break. Can one of you two do a one-shot for a few sessions?" Nothing changes a player like becoming a DM.

 

[Akaiku]

Say: "I need a break. Can one of you two do a one-shot for a few sessions?" Nothing changes a player like becoming a DM.

Thing is, that is a different skill set. I do have to figure that several players wouldn't't WANT to gm, as I am one of them. Does everyone say yes when offered that role, as it seems to be a fairly common piece of advice on the boards here. What if they say no?

 

[ExploderWizard]

Thing is, that is a different skill set. I do have to figure that several players wouldn't't WANT to gm, as I am one of them. Does everyone say yes when offered that role, as it seems to be a fairly common piece of advice on the boards here. What if they say no?

That's easy. If they say no then there isn't a problem. I firmly believe that anyone who will show up game after game and play under a GM they do nothing but complain about needs to either take over and show everyone how it's done or shut up. If the game is intolerable why keep playing? If you can keep telling a friend that his game stinks then bowing out shouldn't be an issue.

 

[malkav666]

Thing is, that is a different skill set. I do have to figure that several players wouldn't't WANT to gm, as I am one of them. Does everyone say yes when offered that role, as it seems to be a fairly common piece of advice on the boards here. What if they say no?

Sure,

I agree that it is an entirely different skill set. But if a player knows enough about GMing to complain about how their GM is going about it, then it seems to reason that they may know enough about that skill set to run a game of their own. Because a player criticizing the GM for "doing it wrong" while not even knowing enough about GMing to be able to perform the act all, seems to me to be a person who is engaging in the act of complaining just for the sake of it.

love,

malkav

 

[Doug McCrae]

I firmly believe that anyone who will show up game after game and play under a GM they do nothing but complain about needs to either take over and show everyone how it's done or shut up. If the game is intolerable why keep playing?

Some people just like to complain. It's their nature.

 

[Liquidsabre]

I'll add my voice to the chorus that this issue stems from a play style difference and a lack of play-style agreement (the usually unspoken agreement to buy into the style of game being played).

With the amount of prep work that goes into your homebrew world and the adventures coupled with the response of the 2 most active players at your game table, I'm going to hazard a guess that the level of DM-driven story and plot that you are running is higher than what your two active and troublesome players are comfortable with. Your other three players are perfectly happy going wherever the story happens to take them. Your other two players are wanting to be more active participants in the game and have started to chafe a bit at their perceived lack of control over where the story seems to take them. Rather than having character background stories as side adventures they seem to be wanting to have their character stories to take a little more center stage.

So since it doesn't seem you've left yourself the option to lead your two players to another game closer to their desired play style I'm afraid your only option left is to adapt. Though I also happen to like offering them the DM spot, it serves to remind them that this IS your game and if they are unhappy with it they need to either address it in a constructive manner or not play. Encourage constructive criticism outside of the game and away from the table. This will let your players know that you're willing to listen to what they say. Hopefully this will also keep their half-budding resentments from building up into muttering and snide comments at the game table. Plus you might learn more specifics of what they are looking to get out of game play.

Adapting your play style a little doesn't have to hurt. Plus it could really help you prevent some of this burgeoning DM burnout. For one, lets try to cut back on the number of prep hours your spending away from the game table! On average, try not to go past 1/2 game time over the course of a week prepping for a game. Any more than that and you risk investing too much of yourself into each game session. By putting so much work in you really raise the stakes for yourself on a personal level for the success of each and every game. Any hint of mediocrity or slow moments become a let down for you, despite any large successes that might have peaked during the game. Putting less of yourself into each and every single game session will help you step back from setting yourself up for disappointment.

Second, try letting characters direct where their next adventure takes them a bit. Maybe let your two players derail a large section of the adventure and go "off the map" so to speak. Wing it a bit and pique their curiosities if you can, after all its their curiosity that lead them in the direction they are going in the first place. See if you can't drop some awesome homebrew-world exposition in their laps so you will enjoy their romp too. I'm a firm believer in opportunity plot and exposition dropping in this way. Afterwards, be sure to let them they know that they took the game "off the map" and I'll bet you they will be both surprised and impressed. Now they know that you will give them a little room to enjoy themselves too. Just knowledge of that little bit of freedom will often be enough for many players.

Best of luck and hope our ENWorlders help you and yours!

 

[haakon1]

i solved it by telling my problem players i was burned out and asking if one of them would take over dming for a while so i could play.

After they had a chance to sit in the "hotseat" the had a different appreciation for the challenges of dming and i enjoyed having them at the table after their attitude change.

qft

 

[kitsune9]

Hi Enworld (first poster here),

I have been DMing this 3.0 group for 1 year and the process is slowly burning me out. I'm a DM that prepares a lot for the sessions. I usually take about twice as long as we actually play (which I consider a lot). We play in my self-created homebrew world and I write my own adventures. I invest a lot of time in our wiki which details the world and it's NPCs and I create side stories that involve the player character's backgrounds. With three of the players, everything is fine. I like them, they like my DMing style, they enjoy the game and give me the feeling that they're generally appreciative.

The two other players constantly give me the feeling that they take everything that happens in the game for granted. Whereas the other players accept my rulings and generally respect me, these two guys always criticise, as if nothing I prepared was ever good enough for them. Slowly, my table has shifted towards a 'DM vs. players' atmosphere since these two are the most vigorous players and often control the mood. I really hate that atmosphere and it's something I have never had with other groups. These two dislike the pace of the game, complain that the monsters are too tough (although no character has ever died or even came close), they don't have enough magic gear, I am unfair and always rule against the group when something in the RAW is unclear and that generally their expectations aren't met. I try to be a DM that doesn't rule over the players. I am sometimes convinced that something I ruled was wrong and then I change course. But what I really miss is some respect for the work I invest. Just something like "Thanks, the last session was really cool" instead of a "yeah, that sucked again. Aw well, let's see what he'll be dragging us through next time" (not spoken out directly, of course).

This is really frustrating me. Should I just end the campaign? That would be like giving up for me. Also, I couldn't throw these players out, as they are friends.

I'd be really thankful for your recommendations on how to go from here. Maybe someone has had similar experiences? Cheers,

Owain.

Since they are your friends, you should email them and tell that their comments are frustrating you in that you're getting burned out, not having fun, etc. Really, you should sit down and talk with them that their constant badgering at your expense is not fun for you and it's too much of a hassle to go through all that work and prep. If they cannot stop and if you don't want to kick them out, then consider in-game sanctions against their characters. If these guys are really your friends, it shouldn't have to come to that.

I think quitting the campaign is a bit harsh though because you'd be punishing the other three players for the actions of these two.