Dear 4e, Please Stop with the Horrible Portmanteaus!

[Votan]

Do you know the type of FURY that would erupt from D&D players if WotC decided to exclude a lot of monsters that were in earlier editions?

There was mass anger because they chose to put FROST GIANTS in MM2 instead of the first one.

Middle Earth gets away with it because they didn't HAVE four dozen different monstrous humanoids gathered from 3 previous editions of D&D, in addition to all the other monsters acquired over the editions people want.

Oh, I agree that the reasons for Breadth make sense. It's just worth noting that there really is a trade-off here when it comes to names. You can put out creatures with exotic names and get players to memorize them for only so many creatures. The single time that an Arrow Demon appears, if it worth noting that it's real name is (as a random example) Callicantzaros but it is also known to the people of the shining seas as Yog-Nephry and to the plains men as . . .

It's worth reading an AD&D monster manual to see the critters that no longer make the grade in modern editions and how what looks (to modern eyes) as a limited set of monsters could be so impressive at the time.

So I understand (and even agree) with the WotC strategy. My thinking is that if you want cool and interesting names, reducing the number of possible opponents will really help to make each one a deeper and more interesting creature.

That being said, there is a reason why vampires and werewolves are popular (even Tolkien used them as forms for Sauron to shift into) -- people intuitively know what they are and don't need it explained in painful detail.

 

[Ourph]

It's one thing if we called all D&D monsters stuff like ixitxachitl.

Ixitxachitl isn't a difficult word to say. No matter how you say it, it's not going to sound any different to a casual listener. Anyway, it's not like a sahuagin is going to rise up out of the sea and slap you if you don't put the accent on the right syllable.

If we did, then yeah, I might sing a different tune about battle-spike behemoth, or whatever it is. But we don't, so battle-spike behemoths sounds stupid, and I wonder why we couldn't just say stegosaur like the original MM did.

If I were a paleontologist and found a new species of Stegosaur with a big spiky tail, I would SOOOO name it Stegosaurus pugnaspiculum.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

It may look fantastic on paper, and the author may love the pattern of typing it out, but Xtzj'vvrekkaa Nagaaloiousious doesn't roll off the tongue very well.

Wasn't Xtzj'vvrekkaa Nagaaloiousious an ixitxachitl foe of Drizzt Do'Urden formerly of Menzoberranzan?

DS

 

[Ycore Rixle]

This has been done twice - with the Warlord and the Wilden. Both times, the warlord and the wilden were the winners because no one could agree which ones were worse and which better!

Possibly because none of the alternatives posted were worse or better.

It's hard to quantify, all right. Absent near-universal acclaim, skyrocketing sales, widespread use, and scores of imitators and adapters, it's tough to say "this is the best, or close to the best, that it could have been."

 

[I'm A Banana]

Possibly because none of the alternatives posted were worse or better.

Well, it's a bit of a catch 22, because people are trying to anticipate an audience reaction that is pretty impossible to anticipate. Trying to create "the perfect name" is destined for failure.

All you can really do is have better or worse names, and that's something of a subjective call.

I mean, look at the defense Shadowdark has gotten in this thread. If people can voiceiferously defend THAT, then clearly there's a lot of people out there who aren't very sensitive to horrible names, and who would vote for the default name, just because it is the default, and they don't care that much to change it.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Wasn't Xtzj'vvrekkaa Nagaaloiousious an ixitxachitl foe of Drizzt Do'Urden formerly of Menzoberranzan?

DS

Ziggy Nacogdoches? Say it ain't so!!!

 

[Derulbaskul]

I don't mind a lot of the new portmanteaus. They're easy enough to change but at least they are simple to pronounce. I actually prefer them for the names of dinosaurs but I can understand others not liking that.

Wasn't Xtzj'vvrekkaa Nagaaloiousious an ixitxachitl foe of Drizzt Do'Urden formerly of Menzoberranzan?

DS

R A Salvatore is the worst person to be quoting, IMO.

He's the George Lucas of fantasy fiction and his naming conventions and the verbal tics and dialogue choices of some of his characters make even Jar-Jar Binks seem like a work of genius.

However, I still think his worst names were reserved for use in his sole 1E credit that I know about about, FR's The Bloodstone Lands. When a mountain range seems to be named "(expletive) you", you know you're dealing with a guy who doesn't have a lot of respect for the IP.

 

[Rechan]

He's the George Lucas of fantasy fiction

Well-loved and etched in the memories of young and old as wonderful, a touchstone to all comers of fantasy?

However, I still think his worst names were reserved for use in his sole 1E credit that I know about about, FR's The Bloodstone Lands. When a mountain range seems to be named "(expletive) you", you know you're dealing with a guy who doesn't have a lot of respect for the IP.

Heh. In my campaign, in a mountainy area there's a pass called the "Goat(expletive) Pass". Because the trail leads to a community of outcasts, and it reflects what the locals think of said community.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

I mean, look at the defense Shadowdark has gotten in this thread. If people can voiceiferously defend THAT, then clearly there's a lot of people out there who aren't very sensitive to horrible names, and who would vote for the default name, just because it is the default, and they don't care that much to change it.

I love the implication that people who do not agree with you about what a horrible name is just don´t get it, don´t care much and just vote for the default because they have no clue. Not that this isn´t a widespread approach to internet discussion, mind you.

 

[tuxgeo]

I love the implication that people who do not agree with you about what a horrible name is just don´t get it, don´t care much and just vote for the default because they have no clue. Not that this isn´t a widespread approach to internet discussion, mind you.

Is it an issue of agreeing with him, or is it an issue with the name "Shadowdark" itself?

All shadows are dark -- that is part of what makes them shadows -- so every shadow in existence is "The Shadowdark."
That being the case, what's special about giving the name "Shadowdark" to the portion of the Underdark beneath the Shadowfell? How does that name serve to distinguish that dangerous place from every other shadow in existence, whether they be dangerous or safe?