Dear 4e, Please Stop with the Horrible Portmanteaus!

[MrMyth]

And a 'Doodrammelaar' is simply a better name than 'Deathrattle Viper'. And if we want to get away from the foreign language portmanteau we could change the spelling to something like Dudrammelair.

Whereas, for myself, I find "Doodrammelaar" as both hard to remember and somewhat silly (I can already hear my local gaming group proclaiming, "Dude! Rammelaars!"), as opposed to the very functional Deathrattle Viper.

I admit - there are some new WotC names I find over the top. On the other hand, it is a trade-off from names that are incomprehensible or seem meaningless. In all honesty, either method of names you use, some will be good and evocative and memorable, and some will be dull and uninteresting (or complex and inaccessible). I think it reasonable to complain about specific choices as poor ones, but not to condemn the entire method as a whole.

 

[Dice4Hire]

As with every edition of D&D there are some odd names, but I do nto wee it as a big deal.

I mean the original game had, "Elf", how could you go downhill from that?

 

[Mistwell]

But I think at this point we can definitively say that many -- if not most -- of these neologisms are pure trainwrecks.

I think at this point we can definitively say that a material number of people disagree with your definitive statement.

The names seem fine to me, and as you can see with this thread, a lot of folks are fine with the names for the most part.

 

[The_Gneech]

I must agree that the 4E nomenclature makes my teeth itch, starting with "Feywild" and "Shadowfell" and moving on from there.

On the other hand, we already had "Underdark" and "Duskblade," so I guess there's not a whole lot of room to complain. But it would be nice for the mangling of the language to back off a bit...

-The Gneech

 

[Jhaelen]

I don't mind most of them (I just don't like it if too many of them sound similar...) - but then I'm not a native English speaker.

It's a good thing there's no longer a German publisher for D&D 4e, though. Those names are usually atrocious if you translate them into German. It was my main reason for buying Diablo2 in English (well, that, and the English speakers).

Does anyone else remember those Diablo2 (random) boss and item names?

 

[Mallus]

To people sensitive to the nuances of language, it is possible to create completely made-up words that actually seem to sound and look like what they are meant to evoke.

To people 'sensitive to the nuances of language' it is possible to write good and enduring poetry like "Fern Hill" and "Buffalo Bill's defunct". Most people are stuck writing sentimental drivel about how much they love their cats.

Not to sound overly critical... but I'm guessing most game designers are closer to the cat-balladeer camp.

There used to be this guy, Tolkien, who had a real knack for it: Mordor, Sauron, ent, balrog, Lothlórien. And he made up a whole bunch more just like that!

Tolkien's names make some people laugh. I know this firsthand. I am married to one of them.

"His name is Strider?"
"Well, sort of. He's really named Aragorn... son of Arathorn... the last in the line of the Numenor..."
"You know that's not helping, right?"

<the above is paraphrased from many actually conversations>

 

[fireinthedust]

Interesting fact: Octopus is Greek, basically meaning an eight-tentacled sea creature. Its name is functional, just like the names complained about here. It is what it says it is.
Latin names used in scientific identification of a species try to do just that: describe the creature according to its traits, but in a language that modern scientists (from Europe, a couple centuries ago) all understood: Latin.
This is the same deal as using Google Translator to change one functional name from one language to another.

You're not really changing the name, you're just making it so that it doesn't sound like a word you understand the meaning or origin of.
If you want to be amazed by the cool sound of a word, or weird spelling, just keep being ignorant. In fact, be *more* ignorant than you already may be, and include words in English.

Oddly, I'm content to use a language that my players speak to describe the monsters I throw at them. Unicorns (one-horned), Red caps, Draco-liches (dragon-liches), Mindflayers, Owlbears, Fire Elementals, all these and more can finally be included honestly in D&D games at my house.
Likewise, when I'm trying to convey to my players that they're being attacked by a pile of demons they've never encountered before, I can differentiate between the Arrow Demons and the others (many of whom don't have easy-to-remember names).

Granted, some flavor text along the lines of "Arcanoloths, known to scholars as Raavasta" would be handy. That particular name-change, from a functional and already present name, to a less-direct name, wasn't good imho; frankly, they're going to be Arcanoloths, specifically the one from the Ravenloft adventures and the Van Richten's Guide to Fiends!

 

[Rechan]

And yet "ViseJaw" is about as clearly indicative and explaining. Visejaw: It Bites Hard. Tells me what it is. A Battlebriar sounds like, well, a thornbush-type plant made for attacking. And that's what it is!

Want the spooky words? Fine. Sorrowsworn. "Sworn of Sorrow". That's as spooky as illithid or aboleth. Or the Blaspheme.

But those dont' tell you WHAT It IS? Then how about Derro, Genasi, Norkers, Duergar, and any other race name. Or how about a Balgura? That tells you nothing of what you're dealing with.

The only difference between Derro and Wilden is because you're familiar with Derro.

 

[Celebrim]

Interesting fact: Octopus is Greek, basically meaning an eight-tentacled sea creature. Its name is functional, just like the names complained about here. It is what it says it is.

I know what 'Octopus' means. I doubt anyone here doesn't. I thought I had already explained that the reason that portmanteau's in foreign languages worked better for the native English speaker than English ones is that in English, when we want to make a proper name for something most of the time we do in fact make a portmanteau's in a foreign language (or borrow it's common name from what it is called locally). The fact that we make words like this in Greek or Latin is precisely the point.

Octopus sounds 'cool', that is to say right and proper to the native English speaker, in a way that 'Eightlegs' does not.

You're not really changing the name, you're just making it so that it doesn't sound like a word you understand the meaning or origin of.

So? Most of Tolkien's invented proper names are built up from stem words in invented languages. Almost all English proper nouns are built from foreign words whether we are talking about place names or personal names. In English, you are just used to hearing borrowed words as proper names as the proper way to name something. In English, you don't normally name someone Purity Spearthrower or Builtlikeaking Strongarms or Giftofgod Furnituremakersson, even if the name you do give to the person actually means that. It doesn't sound right in the ear.

If you want to be amazed by the cool sound of a word, or weird spelling, just keep being ignorant. In fact, be *more* ignorant than you already may be

This borders on being an ad hominem attack. Lexicography is a hobby of mine. I adore etomology. I may not be a Tolkien caliber philologist, but I do try to invent my own languages. I don't suggest using foreign portmanteaus for proper names of creatures out of ignorance that many English words are, but quite the contrary.

Granted, some flavor text along the lines of "Arcanoloths, known to scholars as Raavasta" would be handy.

I'd prefer the reverse, known to scholars as Arcanoloths, and some list of how they might be know regionally and colloquially such Raavasta, Minochmen, Decievers, etc. (that is, assuming Arcanoloths are commonly enough encountered that they'd even have common names, which they might not).

Under that structure, 'Deathrattle Viper' might be listed as one of the creatures common names.

 

[Celebrim]

But those dont' tell you WHAT It IS? Then how about Derro, Genasi, Norkers, Duergar, and any other race name. Or how about a Balgura? That tells you nothing of what you're dealing with.

How about zebra? Elephant? Lion? Cat? Dog? Porpoise? Haddock? Scorpion?

Hippopotumus and Leopard might tell you something if you know a bit about language, but what they tell you might give you entirely the wrong picture in your head.

Sure, we have Portmanteau's in English: rattlesnake, pronghorn, etc. And we have descriptive names: white-tailed deer, black bear, etc.

There isn't anything inherently wrong with dropping the occasional combo-word, especially for something that is supposed to be common and ordinary. The problem becomes when you try to do this for everything. It's lazy and grating on the ear.