D&D 4E death and 4E

[Wormwood]

If the designers of 4E in thier infinite wisdom decided that death was no fun and therefore removed the threat or possiblilty of death from the new edition would you be ok with it?

1. Sigh.

2. If they could come up with a mechanic that removed PC death from the game while maintaining the drama and consequences of combat? Sure, I'd be willing to take a nice long look at it.

But then again, I'm open minded and willing to consider new ideas.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

I would not like it if death were removed from the edition. By itself it would not be enough to prevent me from looking further into 4e since I could house rule it back in.

Personally I would like to see a reduction in insta-kill spells, but at the same time making death a little harder to come back from. Things like Resurrection spells can only be cast by a cleric of the same deity as the deceased to be free and clear. Clerics of allied deities can cast the spell, but must perform a service for the deity of the deceased.

 

[Glyfair]

If the designers of 4E in thier infinite wisdom decided that death was no fun and therefore removed the threat or possiblilty of death from the new edition would you be ok with it?

Given my long recent thread on the subject of having a D&D campaign where death isn't a threat, I can hardly say no. So, of course, I'm going to say no.

For one, I think that sort of game requires a mature group, and probably an experienced group. It's not for everyone, and maybe not for most. It shouldn't be the default.

Second, removing death as a threat and removing death as a possibility are two different things. Death should never be removed as a possibility, except in the oddest of campaigns.

Finally, I can play a game with no threat of death in D&D for any edition with only a handful of house rules. Why would I need it part of the rules? I think it would be interesting to see it listed in one of the annual Dungeon Master Guides as an option, though.

 

[jasin]

You could achieve something similar with a very tiny house rule - make it so resurrection magic works only on characters killed with death effects. That way both spell groups are more or less unchanged, but they sort of cancel each other in the brokeness department.

Only if you included stuff like greataxe criticals and dragon full attacks in the category of death effects...

 

[Kahuna Burger]

I think it would be interesting to see it listed in one of the annual Dungeon Master Guides as an option, though.

I agree - as long as the listing includes play notes rather than just mechanics.

 

[drothgery]

If the designers of 4E in thier infinite wisdom decided that death was no fun and therefore removed the threat or possiblilty of death from the new edition would you be ok with it?

Making characters somewhat harder to kill (action points, making save or die spells much more rare, etc.), and resurection somewhat more difficult, I'd be all for. I wouldn't be for making character death impossible.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

If that happened, D&D would finally catch up with the games I'm playing now.

The current D&D treatment of PC death is a nightmare that remains only because of inertia (either in the designers or the player base). I can't think of another "solution" that manages to simultaneously cheapen death and remove players from play for the better part of a session.

 

[Wormwood]

If that happened, D&D would finally catch up with the games I'm playing now.

QFT.

In our games, the only time characters die is when the player and GM *choose* for it to happen for dramatic purposes.

 

[Jackelope King]

I've always found that the most satisfying resolution to the death/ressurection problem is to get rid of the anti-climactic, "Well, Bob's dead. Let's finish looting these orcs, then we'll strap him to his horse, drag him back into town, and let Greg the Cleric know that we need another ressurection. We'll ask him after a little dinner and maybe a quick nap, so Jim the Wizard can get his spells back."

I've prefered the method used in psionics, with psionic revivify (also used by Complete Divine's Spirit Shaman). If a hero dies, you have one round to bring them back, which seems to me to be more of a "medical miracle" or desperate attempt to heal someone who is really fading fast than a way to make death completely powerless in a world. It makes death something to still worry about ("What if I die and can't get revivified quickly enough?") and keeps it from ruining the game world (no more "Aw... an assassin got King Tom again. I'll go get Greg the Cleric. Again.") Death has real power, but the PCs can avoid an inglamorous death to Random Orc #11... if they're quick.

And on a side-note: it's quite easy to have a fun game without killing characters. If they're dead, then you can't torment them anymore! If the characters in our current, ongoing game were to die, they'd be getting off easy.

 

[cerberus2112]

First off, I think Raise Dead should have some sort of restriction on who can be raised. IE. it works on Player Characters because they are Heroes, but you cannot raise a 1st level commoner. My gut is to say that only characters with Heroic Classes (PC classes) can be raised at all; characters with NPC classes, or monsters without classes, cannot be raised from the dead. This gives you an ingame reason for why the King cannot be brought back from the dead after he is assassinated; he's an important persona, sure, but not a "Hero." If he only has levels in the Aristocrat NPC class he just isn't eligible to be brought back from the dead.

Secondly, make it a difficult spell to cast in terms of resources; this needn't be immediate recourses. Perhaps the Raise comes at the cost of a Geas/Quest imposed by the deity granting it. This Quest could be imposed upon both the raised soul and the cleric casting it, and the allies who beseeched the god to intercede on their allies behalf (ie, the whole party ). This would make Raise Dead a much more dramatic and tension filled story event, rather than just another form of healing.