D&D 4E death and 4E

[Wormwood]

What is with today's gamers? When did this hobby get so infused with a bunch of pansies?

Yawn.

 

[Grazzt]

In my group we draw maps but we also have character death *GASP!*

Sinner.

 

[tsadkiel]

When was the last time you saw a party actually run away, because it was simply the smartest and best option?

A few months ago.

Hell, when was the last time you saw someone map?

Speaking as someone who started playing with 1E, never. We didn't see the point then, and still don't.

 

[Zaruthustran]

If the designers of 4E decided that death was no fun and therefore removed the threat or possiblilty of death from the new edition would you be ok with it?

I wouldn't like that. In my home campaign, we've removed the resurrection and Raise Dead spells. It takes a Wish or Miracle to bring someone back.

But I'd still play 4E. I'm liking what I hear about classes, roles, magic items, and rules. It'd be very easy to simply house rule: "When you're dead, you're dead."

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

In my group we draw maps but we also have character death *GASP!*

As for the name calling, I call them as I see them. The more I read abou the changes going to be made and the reactions of some people makes me think that today's gamers have no cojones. I grew up on adventures such as the Temple of Elemental Evil, Tome of Horrors, and Dragon Mountain. If these adventures were released today much of their bite, their fun, would have been cut out and discarded.

It makes me sick that I am even part of this hobby.

Yes, because it takes REAL cojones to brave the danger of being removed from play and spending an evening reading/watching other people play/kibitzing/playing a Game Boy because you rolled bad in the first encounter. I mean, wow. Anybody with the cojones to handle that, he could probably take on an armored division single-handedly; the tanks would just WILT. :\

Bravado and posturing aside, there's nothing un-Gamist about not wanting gameplay death, nothing that says you don't want the most difficult possible challenges. Someone's apparent inability to understand that "No Gameplay Death" is not equal to "No Challenge" does not make them equal. 99% of non-RPGs either don't allow players to be removed from play prior to the end of the game or require a significant expenditure of resources on the part of other players before it can happen; it seems a bit of a stretch to say that only those games are challenging.

There are people who understand this and still prefer gameplay death; these people have a logical position based on what they value in the game. These people design purpose-driven, intelligent games that allow for gameplay death and make provisions to keep the game fun for all players. I have no problem with these people or the games they produce.

They generally don't boast about what bad dudes they are because they're not afraid to lose a character, however.

 

[Korgoth]

If the designers of 4E decided that death was no fun and therefore removed the threat or possiblilty of death from the new edition would you be ok with it?

No. But I'd be tempted to buy all the secondhand copies I found so I could burn them.

 

[Visceris]

Yes, because it takes REAL cojones to brave the danger of being removed from play and spending an evening reading/watching other people play/kibitzing/playing a Game Boy because you rolled bad in the first encounter. I mean, wow. Anybody with the cojones to handle that, he could probably take on an armored division single-handedly; the tanks would just WILT. :\

Awww... Poor baby. If your character dies, make a new character, and let the DM plop you in where it fits. Problem solved.

Bravado and posturing aside, there's nothing un-Gamist about not wanting gameplay death, nothing that says you don't want the most difficult possible challenges. Someone's apparent inability to understand that "No Gameplay Death" is not equal to "No Challenge" does not make them equal. 99% of non-RPGs either don't allow players to be removed from play prior to the end of the game or require a significant expenditure of resources on the part of other players before it can happen; it seems a bit of a stretch to say that only those games are challenging.

They maybe for you, but not for me.

There are people who understand this and still prefer gameplay death; these people have a logical position based on what they value in the game. These people design purpose-driven, intelligent games that allow for gameplay death and make provisions to keep the game fun for all players. I have no problem with these people or the games they produce.

Good for you.

They generally don't boast about what bad dudes they are because they're not afraid to lose a character, however.

It just seems that WotC wants to remove the threat of death from the game. Adventuring is a dangerous occupation and death should be a consequence, may it be by bad die rolls or by making a stupid decision. One of the most fun game sessions I have ever had involved character deaths, either as DM or as a player. It looks like WotC wants to remove that aspect out of the game and that is just stupid.

 

[Aloïsius]

It just seems that WotC wants to remove the threat of death from the game. It looks like WotC wants to remove that aspect out of the game and that is just stupid.

What makes you say that ? You have the binder used for the first play-test of 4e ? As a 3e DM, I have seen scores of players dying (but no TPK until now : my groups are usualy smart enough to flee when necessary). I haven't read anything saying that 4e will change something about that. An axe in the face will still be an axe in the face, even when you have 3 hit dices.

 

[shilsen]

As one of the people who's posted often enough about how the game can work just fine without death in it and how death is only one of the many ways to have consequences in the game and a fairly limited and uninteresting one at that, I'd personally have no problems whatsoever with the rules eliminating death. That being said, on the whole I think it's better to have rules (optional or otherwise) in place that seriously diminish the possibility of death, rather than removing it completely.

 

[Michael Morris]

Awww... Poor baby. If your character dies, make a new character, and let the DM plop you in where it fits. Problem solved.

Dial back the attitude please.